what kind of airtime utilization are you seeing on that AP during peak?
I am getting ready to setup our test site, but I'm really curious to see what others are seeing as ours will be a forklift instead of a brand new site. It has a fairly decent distrubution of clients.
About 50%, we’ll see with bigger numbers
Thanks for taking the time to respond Giuseppe4. We are targetting a forklift of a busy sector, I am just curious of what others are seeing and we will share what we find as well.
You’re welcome!
I’m curious to see real MU-MIMO gains in our environment, so in this thread everyone can post his experience and some screenshots… I think it can be useful for us to understand which setup gives more gain than other and so on…
Our process, as suggested in webinars, is to create green field environment when possible (for new customers for example, or testing purpose) or to connect F180/190/200 customers on 3k replacing the SMs of the “top usage” clients with 300-16/300-25 to get the best from MU-MIMO and reducing their impact on the sector.
Hi,
i would also like to see real throughput example.. is there anyone out there hiting 300-400Mbit on 40Mhz throughput not bilt in speed test on epmp3000 .. show me 300 and take my money :)!
Makoto - our 3000’s do over 300 mbit in 40mhz channel, and over 700 mbit in 80mhz channel. This is throughput with a single SM, so it would be more with MU-MIMO gains, but I really haven’t tested that yet.
https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t5/ePMP-3000-2000-and-1000/3000-Low-TCP-Throughput/m-p/106758/highlight/true#M17053
Hi,
i saw your test and it looks very promising but I was was hoping to see by now especially after fw4.4 epmp3000 4x4 in production loaded with 50-60 clients doing 300+Mbit in peek time!
For comparison with epmp2000, marketing was 200+Mbit, similar tests in controled environment mostly single SM or PTP woud come close to that, internal udp test with ideal SMs can do up to 180-190Mbit in production!
But the end of the day all that matters loaded epmp2000 in production maxes out 100Mbit/40Mhz sometime litle bit more .. which is fine to me not criticising :).
I do not expect to see 700-800Mbits with epmp3000 ever :) 300Mbit should be realistic but never actually seen it .. yet :) I hope I whill !
just to clarify epmp2000 are my experiance but I do not have epmp3000 instaled.. I was referring to community forums,facebooks grups ..
I think one of the big issues with seeing results at this point is that 3k hasn't been "quite there yet" long enough for people to start sinking the money into either replacing CPEs or greenfielding new deployments in a big way. I know it hasn't been for me.
However, my small test sector with 11 subs mixed between f200 and f300 shows very promising results so far. I don't however have enough subscribers or traffic during peak hours on it to really know for certain what the max performance will look like.
Especially when you combine that fact with the APs price. It is $1,200 USD$ for the AP/Sector, and $380 more for the beam steering ant. In CAD$ that’s a minimum of $1,600 per sector, or over $2,100 CAD$ with BSA. 
That’s a huge barrier to entry, certainly without clear evidence that it’s worth that much more that the competition.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge believer and I’m blown away by what I see them do… I’m just saying that I agree it’s difficult for people to have invested in loaded 50-60 SM sectors without knowing is worth the premium price.
It's funny, when I went to thumbs-up @ninedd's post I was baraged with a third-party how do you like our site add. Cambium, just get in touch with your users. Advertisers don't know anything you don't already know. If they do you have an internal issue.
Hi guys,
Just curious to know if anyone here maxed out e3k and its MU-MIMO and can give us some feedbacks about it.
Thanks!
I've finally got some data for you guys!
26 users, 23 are 300 series radios, 20mhz.
Top is the traffic graph, with mu-mimo being utilized. I don't believe that it it's hitting enough airtime saturation for mu-mimo to be consistently scheduled.
Here is the client list, shows plans/grouping:
We swapped 14 of the 23 customers yesterday, and since then our 256qam utilization has gone up from 32% to 39%:
Without a doubt there seems to be much more bandwidth available on this AP during peak hours. I'm still exploring more ways that I can effectively graph/gather data about the 3k's mu-mimo abilities, and how to tell the health of the sector overall to make sure the experience is where we want it to be.
Thats good info. Can you show a throughput screen where 20mhz is maxxed out? Will it do combined 150MB+ in 20mhz?
As you can see, the traffic is fairly low right now being early here... but here is my attempt at synthetic traffic.
The previous post was all real world, customer traffic patterns - I am way more concerned about how the sector behaves when customers are utilizing it then the link test numbers. The two CPEs I picked for this testing did seemed to be grouped, but sometimes all of their traffic would not group - maybe because they are on the edge of grouping?
The peaks on your throughput graphs look to be about 200 mbit download on a 20mhz channel.
Here is a Wireless Link Test from a few months ago. Much earlier software versions would give around 220Mbps. This was a live/test network set on a tower on my family land (you can see the live data flowing in the graph). It was just my home, my parents home, and another family members home. This was our first 3000AP we acquired for testing before we mounted any for customer use. Actually... it is still like this We got busy mounting 3000's on other towers and installing customers and never moved this AP. We will be mounting it at the top of the tower in the next few weeks and migrating other customers to it.
Here is a real world graph from a sector in town. This was taken about 2 months ago. At this time there was only 4 customers on this AP. One customer could MU-MIMO with the other three. The other three could only MU-MIMO with him. Two customers are on 40Mbps packages, one on 25Mbp packages, and the one who can MU-MIMO with everyone else was set at 100Mbps. The guy with a 100Mbps package owns a PC repair store on Main Street. We told him we would leave him at 100Mbps until sector started to fill and then we would back him down to 40Mbps (or if he continued to need 100Mbps we could set something up for him since this tower has fiber). This was in exchange for him advertising us to his customers.
He takes some of his work home with him. In the graph below you can see he starts a massive download that last for around 6.5 minutes and traffic shoots to between 130-140Mbps during this time.
Here is a screen shot of his SM during this download. I almost forgot to get a capture of it, but you can see he is reaching 100Mbps consistently during his download, all while not affecting the others traffic.
Awesome details CWB. I especially like your second image, and it shows something interesting and important. That is that among the keys for when the AP will MU-MIMO and when it won't... one of those factors is ''if it needs to''. So, if it can handily deliver the data using SU-MIMO, then it won't necessarily bother MU-MIMOing. That can make it difficult to test artificially, and make it difficult to test on low-CPE sectors - even though in the real world, the heavier a sector is loaded, and the more bandwidth demands on that sector, the more likely MU-MIMO will be.
So, I particularly like your example, where your sector is going along delivering 30-40 Mbit to clients, and when another client needs 100 mbit... the AP decides to kick into MU-MIMO mode and essentially uses 'free' bandwidth to deliver this - and then goes back to SU-MIMO mode when the bandwidth peak is over. Very cool, very useful, and very spectrum efficient.
@ninedd wrote:Awesome details CWB. I especially like your second image, and it shows something interesting and important. That is that among the keys for when the AP will MU-MIMO and when it won't... one of those factors is ''if it needs to''. So, if it can handily deliver the data using SU-MIMO, then it won't necessarily bother MU-MIMOing. That can make it difficult to test artificially, and make it difficult to test on low-CPE sectors - even though in the real world, the heavier a sector is loaded, and the more bandwidth demands on that sector, the more likely MU-MIMO will be.
So, I particularly like your example, where your sector is going along delivering 30-40 Mbit to clients, and when another client needs 100 mbit... the AP decides to kick into MU-MIMO mode and essentially uses 'free' bandwidth to deliver this - and then goes back to SU-MIMO mode when the bandwidth peak is over. Very cool, very useful, and very spectrum efficient.
This is exactly why I used this particular example.
Here's another partially real-world, partially synthetic result for everyone to consider. 3k AP with 19 subscribers - 13 Force 300 25 and 6 Force 200. I used the mikrotik bandwidth test from my head end to 4 of the subscribers with mikrotiks on their side of things to generate additional traffic. One of these subscribers was un-throttled and the rest others are set for 12 or 18Mbps service
Subscribers are between 3 and 8 miles out on this sector, and the furthest few out are fairly poor links. I suspect if I could have tested to more grouped STAs simultaneously, the MU numbers would have been even higher. Either way, I consider 120+Mbps of real traffic in such a situation pretty impressive on a noisy 20Mhz channel.
I had a moment to play with this again today on the same sector with a legacy force 200 client doing about 25x10Mbps at the same time. I un-capped the 4 same test subscribers as the prior image and let them fight over the airtime.
I observed peaks of ~194Mbps during this brief test. I'm not sure if the extreme saw-tooth pattern was caused by the 100Mbps ethernet ports on the mikrotiks causing a buffer issue, or if it was something else. Also, these 4 force 300 cpe are all grouped but probably not very evenly over the sector. In fact, 3 of the 4 are probably on the "left" side of the sector pattern.
