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Force 300-25 - first impression

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Valued Contributor

Force 300-25 - first impression

So, we got our first Force 300's yesterday and I thought people might want to know our first results.

THE GOOD: This link is 1.25 KM across town. This was with the 4.1-RC36 and I was only able to test at 20 Mhz wide channels because when I selected other widths, the firmware wouldn't allow me to save those settings. The AP was set at 75/25 - and on 5800Mhz.  As well, RC36 doesn't have a LinkTest yet, so the throughput test I was doing was good 'ol SpeedTest.net test. So, that's ~160 Mbit aggregate in a 20 Mhz wide channel. That's working pretty well I think. :)

Force300_Backhaul_BetaFirmware_20MhzWide_EPTP_75_25_WHD_NCOTE_APRIL13_18-2.jpg 


THE BAD: The beta software wouldn't allow me to choose 40 Mhz widths, without complaining that I had selected channels which were not really allowed. And when I did finally get the SM side to save with 40Mhz widths in it's scan list, I then remotely changed the AP to a 40 Mhz channel and the SM didn't link. I expect this was due to the beta having a channel list mismatch. In any event, I ran out of light for the day - and so I only got a chance to test 20 Mhz wide channel and I was pretty pleased with 160 Mbit aggregate throughput.

THE UGLY: There is no ugly - the unit is physically really nice, it goes together very simply... the mount slides on and does an 1/8th twist - the feed snaps into the back and two bolts finish up the assembly.  It's literally 60 seconds to assemble and it's very well made and heavy duty.

14 REPLIES
Moderator

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

Hi ninedd, 

 

Thanks for the great write up! We're working hard in making many improvements including adding link test as quickly as possible. For the 40 MHz issue, can you tell us what particular channels you tried that were troublesome?

 

Sriram

Valued Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

On the SM, I basically just did a 'SELECT ALL' in the 20 / 40 / 80 mhz widths, and then it wouldn't let me save those changes.  I could 'Select All' in 20Mhz widths, but as soon as I wanted to try the 40 & 80 - a 'Select All' didn't work, and the error message just said that I was choosing channels that weren't available in my region.

Also - because there is still no 'test' mode, or 'ping rebooter and revert back to the last saving' - every time I'd make a change where they wouldn't re-link, I had to drive back and forth from AP to SM side to plug in and set them both back to known linking results. It is difficult to believe that there is still no ability for a 'test mode' or to 'revery if unable to link within x seconds'

In any event - It was something when I did a select all in 40/80 and tried to save those.

EDITED: I think when I did a 'select all' on the SM, the 40Mhz list included 5745 and 5750 and I think those were the problem frequencies on the SM. They were there to select, but then produced an error during saving. Therefor, I had to drive to the AP side and set it back to 20 Mhz width, and then drive back to the SM side each time this wouldn't link.

CWB
Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

Thanks for this post. I was not expecting such speeds from a 20Mhz 802.11 AC channel. With that said, I have some questions for Cambium. 

 

How are these speeds possible for 802.11 AC operating on a 20mhz channel? A 20Mhz AC channel is limited to 256-QAM 3/4, not 5/6. Theoretically, you should only see about a 20% increase in speeds over a 20Mhz 802.11 N channel running MCS 15 (64-QAM 5/6) up/dn. 

 

In this set up, we -should- see about 100 dn/30 up for a total of ~ 130Mbps aggregate. This just happens to be what we get out of the competitions AC product on a 20Mhz channel at max modulation rate (used for very short bridges). How are you guys squeezing out 25-30Mbps over the competition, and pretty much over what the AC standards in general suggest we should see? 

Valued Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

OK, this is the same Force 300 link.  It's 1.25 KM Force 300-25 link running 4.1-RC36.

For my 2c CWB, the only way I can test the throughput is to test to SpeedTest, which of course puts the fiber and puts the Speedtest servers in the loop as variables. The Fiber is 300 Mbit download and 60 Mbit upload.  The beta software doens't have an internal link tests, so I'm testing via Speedtest and that throws uncontrollable variables into the loop.

So - this below is set at 20Mhz width and tested through the Internet to a different Ookla/Speedtest server.  We again see about 120 Mbit download and 33 upload to this Server. If this is real results, that's pretty awesome from a 20 Mhz wide channel.
 
Force300_Backhaul_BetaFirmware_20MhzWide_EPTP_75_25_WHD_NCOTE_APRIL16_18-1.jpg


Moderator

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression


@CWB wrote:

Thanks for this post. I was not expecting such speeds from a 20Mhz 802.11 AC channel. With that said, I have some questions for Cambium. 

 

How are these speeds possible for 802.11 AC operating on a 20mhz channel? A 20Mhz AC channel is limited to 256-QAM 3/4, not 5/6. Theoretically, you should only see about a 20% increase in speeds over a 20Mhz 802.11 N channel running MCS 15 (64-QAM 5/6) up/dn. 

 

In this set up, we -should- see about 100 dn/30 up for a total of ~ 130Mbps aggregate. This just happens to be what we get out of the competitions AC product on a 20Mhz channel at max modulation rate (used for very short bridges). How are you guys squeezing out 25-30Mbps over the competition, and pretty much over what the AC standards in general suggest we should see? 


ePMP AC products support QAM-256 both with codding rate 3/4(MCS8) and 5/6(MCS9).

 

Thank you.

CWB
Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression


@Fedorwrote:

@CWBwrote:

Thanks for this post. I was not expecting such speeds from a 20Mhz 802.11 AC channel. With that said, I have some questions for Cambium. 

 

How are these speeds possible for 802.11 AC operating on a 20mhz channel? A 20Mhz AC channel is limited to 256-QAM 3/4, not 5/6. Theoretically, you should only see about a 20% increase in speeds over a 20Mhz 802.11 N channel running MCS 15 (64-QAM 5/6) up/dn. 

 

In this set up, we -should- see about 100 dn/30 up for a total of ~ 130Mbps aggregate. This just happens to be what we get out of the competitions AC product on a 20Mhz channel at max modulation rate (used for very short bridges). How are you guys squeezing out 25-30Mbps over the competition, and pretty much over what the AC standards in general suggest we should see? 


ePMP AC products support QAM-256 both with codding rate 3/4(MCS8) and 5/6(MCS9).

 

Thank you.


The AC standard does not support QAM-256 5/6 on 20Mhz wide channels and the specs for the Force 300 lists a max modulation rate of MCS8 (QAM-256 3/4) on a 20Mhz wide channel. So, the Force 300 does modulate up to QAM-256 5/6 (MCS9) on a 20Mhz channel?

Valued Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

CWB - this is what my "Monitor Performance" screen looks like.  If you can see that?

Monitor_Performance_Apr_17_18.jpg

CWB
Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

Yes!!!, I can see it. Great!!!...They were able to get MCS9 (5/6) on 20Mhz channels. This explain the throughput you are getting. Did not think it was possible due to AC specs and the Force 300 data sheet itself only showing MCS 8 as max rate for a 20Mhz channel. 

Regular Contributor

Re: Force 300-25 - first impression

Hi ninedd,
Thank you for your feedback!

Does the Force 300-25 has an ePTP Mode or Flexible mode? Is 75/25 TDD the only available?
Is 2.5ms frame available?

If not, I ask Cambium when it’s expected to have such support :-)

ninedd, could you please share 40MHz performance page?
If you have about 154Mbps aggregate in 20MHz channel, you should have about 310Mbps aggregate in 40MHz channel at same modulations!