Does anyone know if MOTO plans on coming up with a 900Mhz indoor similiar to WaveRiders? These would be great for us.
jmoore wrote: Does anyone know if MOTO plans on coming up with a 900Mhz indoor similiar to WaveRiders? These would be great for us.
If they do, I hope they work a lot better than WaveRider's. I started out with a WaveRider test system... Awful RF performance compared to the Motorola system I'm testing right now.
farrell wrote: [quote="jmoore":2vhss3xm]Does anyone know if MOTO plans on coming up with a 900Mhz indoor similiar to WaveRiders? These would be great for us.
If they do, I hope they work a lot better than WaveRider's. I started out with a WaveRider test system... Awful RF performance compared to the Motorola system I'm testing right now.[/quote:2vhss3xm]
I've been quite pleased with both our WR and moto gear. If the WR's would have had more throughput I would not be installing canopy gear now.
milbrath wrote: [quote="farrell":2psdoo9g][quote="jmoore":2psdoo9g]Does anyone know if MOTO plans on coming up with a 900Mhz indoor similiar to WaveRiders? These would be great for us.
If they do, I hope they work a lot better than WaveRider's. I started out with a WaveRider test system... Awful RF performance compared to the Motorola system I'm testing right now.[/quote:2psdoo9g]
I've been quite pleased with both our WR and moto gear. If the WR's would have had more throughput I would not be installing canopy gear now.[/quote:2psdoo9g]
Really ? I started out with a WaveRider system to test and after about a month I was convinced that 900MHz wireless simply was not all it was cracked up to be. I convinced my bosses to give me enough money to buy a Canopy test kit.
I went up on the roof were the WaveRider AP / Omni was. I opened the box that housed the WavRider radio / power , disconnected the WaveRider radio from the power and the Omni. I laid the Canopy AP next to the WaveRider radio and connected it to the Antenna and Power.
With the Canopy not only in the exact same spot and using the exact same antenna on the AP it was a whole different world. It went from "doesn't work from most places" to " try and find a spot this doesn't work at". And I didn't set the WaveRider up, the Universtiy of Missouri loaned the units to us and sent their RF guy down to set it up. That said, I worked with the WaveRider people, the University of Missouri people and I pored over the manuals and settings and had simply decided Wireless was not an option in our area until I got the Canopy test kit.
The WaveRider indoor units were impossible. Unless you had LOS from a window to the AP they didn't work at all. From my house, 1/4 of a mile from the AP I could not get the WaveRider indoor EMU to even acknowledge the AP existed. The first Canopy SM I configured was laying face down on my couch while I set it up with my laptop. Imagine my shock after configuring the radio and realize the thing had registered to the AP and I could browse the Internet while the AP still laid there face down on my couch.
That said. I do wish I could have used the WaveRider equipment. I really like that WaveRider does not try to nickle and dime their customers with $oftware licen$e$. I would really like to support WaveRider and their non-money-grubbing ways but the Moto stuff just works for me and the WaveRider just didn't. :(
The fact I could use Radius with the WaverRider was expected... the fact that I can not with Moto ( without paying $$ for prizm ) was a surprise. I fully expect that v8 of Moto's software is just the stepping stone and by v9 there will lot$ of thing$ for us to buy from Moto in order to actually make use of the radio$.
Thanks for the info on Waverider vs Moto.
While I understand your heartburn on the $$$, there is this to consider:
Moto WORKS!
Well… I went on a bit of a rant there and I know better. With just my little Canopy test kit I have a ‘little’ experience with what the radios will or will not do. Now when I see someone on a message board that just got a Canopy system and they say " It won’t work through X " or " I can’t get signal .X miles away" I know they are doing something wrong.
I may not know what it is , and massive threads worth of people trying help may or may not figure it out, but I know he is doing something wrong because I know , for example, that the 900MHz Canopy will indeed shoot through a rose bush even if there is a bumble bee romancing it (the rose bush or the canopy, the bee appears confused… maybe the little bee antennas are 900MHz Vertical).
Anyway, the reality of it is, after I read my own post I see John Doe saying “This WaveRider stuff don’t work at all ! I can’t even get signal through a sheet of paper !” . I know I was doing something wrong with WaveRider radios. I still don’t know what , but I know the equipment is capable of a lot more than I was getting out of it.
I don’t believe that my experience with the WaveRider radios is in any way the Norm. I apologize for giving that impression. My experience was not good but I don’t doubt that others have had very good experiences with it.
I like the Canopy gear, it works for me. It may just be because “Canopy is so simple even a caveman could do it.” I love those commercials even if they are insurance or something unrelated to Moto Canopy.
i hate our waverider system. the outdoor units are a lot more stable then the indoor units. even our indoors at less then a quarter mile have issues. not to mention the lame interface & flashing lights to show signal. LAME!!
MOTO ROCKS!!!
Hmm, seems we are at odd with WR here. I’ve yet to notice a real difference in range regarding the two. As I stated if WR would have had more throuhput I would not be deploying Canopy for new POP’s, that in no means means that I prefer WR over canopy, infact I prefer canopy due to the increased throughput and the fact it has a gui! I wonder if maybe you did not have a bad CCU/EUM?
BM
milbrath wrote: Hmm, seems we are at odd with WR here. I've yet to notice a real difference in range regarding the two. As I stated if WR would have had more throuhput I would not be deploying Canopy for new POP's, that in no means means that I prefer WR over canopy, infact I prefer canopy due to the increased throughput and the fact it has a gui! I wonder if maybe you did not have a bad CCU/EUM?
BM
milbrath, I wonder the same thing (bad CCU). As for the "no gui" I spent several hours over a couple of days trying to figure out why I couldn't bring up the web interface on the radios. Hell I assumed at first I just had the IP wrong and did the little IP reset and still couldn't bring up the GUI. I was a bit blush in the face when I discovered the reason I couldn't bring one up was... because it didn't have one...
Ultimatly I really only got the WaveRider because it was a loaner and it came with support. I needed experience and it was just the ticket. When I first googled around for WaveRider most of the hits had to do with WaveRider being bought and sold by companies I had never heard of. When I buy proprietary equipment I like to think the company I'm locking myself into is going to be around as long as I need them. All the company names , this one getting this division but re-marketing that and letting WaveRider hold this but company B would produce item J while Company C got rights to technology X. It just didn't give me the warm fuzzy "they will be there as long as I need their stuff" feeling I get from Motorola.
Well WR has finally been bought by a company with ample cash reserves, but yes the mergon/selling was somewhat disturbing. About 1 yr ago they were supposed to release a ccu capable of 6mbs, perhaps it will finally arrive.
BM
milbrath wrote: Well WR has finally been bought by a company with ample cash reserves, but yes the mergon/selling was somewhat disturbing. About 1 yr ago they were supposed to release a ccu capable of 6mbs, perhaps it will finally arrive.
BM
If they do it before I buy 20k worth of Canopy, and nothing scary is going on with the corporate side, I will be giving WaveRider a second look.
For what its worth - I also considered using WR gear for a long time. But the max throughput was not enough. Reading their forums last year, they were “supposedly” going to release an AP with higher bandwidth, but it never developed, I guess.
I like the fact that they make an indoor radio/antenna. But if it does not work…
My Moto gear runs indoors nicely. I am still trying to find/build a good mount that looks attractive and will not tip over.
JW
Anyone in the US know if there are any FCC regs regarding 900 MHz indoors vs outdoors ? I had considered the "put Canopy SM in a box " for indoor use but then wondered (1) Why hasn’t Canopy done this already (2) Is that the reason WaveRider indoor antennas are only 6.5 db. (3) All the other indoor 900MHz stuff I found has less power / EIRP than the outdoor stuff.
I remember somewhere in the manual for the Canopy SM there was something about how much distance you should keep between yourself and the SM antenna when it is live. I’m thinking it was 25 inches or something… don’t remember really.
Anyway, I have considered trying this myself but I have not managed to Google up any explanations for why all the indoor units have lower EIRP.
jakkwb wrote: For what its worth - I also considered using WR gear for a long time. But the max throughput was not enough. Reading their forums last year, they were “supposedly” going to release an AP with higher bandwidth, but it never developed, I guess.
I like the fact that they make an indoor radio/antenna. But if it does not work…
My Moto gear runs indoors nicely. I am still trying to find/build a good mount that looks attractive and will not tip over.
JW
Coverage Extender Solution Paper
As has been publicly announced, a new 900MHz Indoor SM product will become available in 2Q2007.
This was publicly announced?? Perhaps I missed it … but here it is!
milbrath wrote: Well WR has finally been bought by a company with ample cash reserves, but yes the mergon/selling was somewhat disturbing. About 1 yr ago they were supposed to release a ccu capable of 6mbs, perhaps it will finally arrive.
BM
Looks like I may be taking another look at waverider :
News: WaveRider/Vecima Networks will be releasing a next generation CCU
which will now be able to obtain 8 Megs in throughput and will be
backwards compatible with the EUM 3005 and 3006 radios! This is huge
news as more throughput on the already rock solid WaveRider system will
push them up to the #1 Best of Breed 900MHz product! This product
should be available in June and an official statement from Vecima
Networks regarding this will be presented shortly.
8meg at 900HHz , nice !
8 Mbps/channel with three non-overlapping channels? innnnnteresting.
I have a “semi-attractive” indoor Moto setup. It consists of a cheap floor lamp - I got mine at Target. It comes in sections, so you can make it any length you want. Nice techie-looking polished metal. I stripped out the electrical guts and removed the shade. The base is large and heavy enough not to tip over. Got the radio and panel antenna mounted at around 5 to 6ft.
This one is at 2.3 miles, shooting through 2 indoor walls and one outdoor. Once you get outside, it is LOS:
RSSI (Avg/Last): 1459/1459 Jitter (Avg/Last): 3/5 Power Level (Avg/Last): -69/-69
Just my .02
I would like a table-top or maybe a ceiling/wall mount bracket. Someone out there needs to engineer one…