A little sway isn’t going to hurt you too much at 900MHz.
Your spectrum looks good, 906 is quiet.
Ping times when it registers shows promise.
You need to try and elevate to reduce the density of the foliage. at -78dB you don’t have enough margin to deal with the swaying trees.
The good news is that you don’t need to spend thousands. You can order a telescoping antenna and a roll of guy wire.
http://www.firstmilewireless.com/prod_tele-mast.html
mslaga wrote: The pole does move very slightly in the wind. Would this also make an impact? Would it be better to be solid mounted about 10-12 feet lower?
In my limited experience, it seems to have no effect on link tests or re-regs. I could keep a solid connection without losing any efficiency even with some sway.
What makes by far the biggest difference for me is height. For my AP, I took a couple sections of a telescoping mast and bolted them to a tree. This elimated the need for guys wires, and it sticks out the top of the tree just a couple of feet, making it blend into the yard better to keep the other half happy. :)
I hired a tree service to come out with a bucket truck to do it for me.
My AP is around 53' feet in the air, and I also have to get the SM up in the air to have a solid connection. (We didn't have a tree available there, so used a 60' mast with guy wires.)
So for a reliable connection, you really need line of sight?
We’ve found it’s obviously very dependent on the antenna you are using. If our shot is over 6-7 miles with heavy foilage we use a 17dbi yagi antenna…this seems to work very well but you have to make sure 110% it’s locked on in the right direction and making a clear connection.
mslaga wrote: So for a reliable connection, you really need line of sight?
No, mine in NLOS through foliage including pines using 900MHz. I believe the higher frequencies do need true LOS though. I need the height for the clear Fresnel zone though, not including trees. While 900MHz will penetrate foilage better, it does have a wider Fresnel zone meaning either one side has to be real high or both sides need to get aways off the ground.
Many web sites have Fresnel zone calculators, just Google for it.
Doug
With the integrated radios only having 12dB antennas, you are limited to the amount of foliage you can penetrate.
If you can raise it so that you are not trying to get through the bulk of the trees, you don’t need absolute line of sight - especially under a mile. Start raising it until you get a continuous ping with 20ms or less.
Perhaps the vendor will take back the integrated SM radios and sell you connectorized without too much of a restocking fee. Then you can use Yagi antennas at the customer end which are much more directional and penetrate much better.
Hey!
Just a quick two cents, as you mentioned that “we are all on the side of a mountain,” the implications on that for your fresnel zone may be significant.
I’ve had it where, when trying to shoot along side a steep slope, the signal is dramatically impacted: Basically, the fresnel zone gets chopped off by the side of the hill (or mountain … . ) and the signal looks crappy in spite of very close range.
lets back up a minute will the intregrated 60 degree antenna even be within the limitations of your clients?
in other words are any of them outside the 60 degrees?
cause if there outside that range your gonna need to do an omni antenna or something.
an omni antenna will be much easier to put on a pole too
but if it was me i would have done all connectorized anyway.
I have one AP with integrated antenna and filter and one SM with integrated antenna (no filter). I have the AP pointing at 150 degrees (directly towards SM) and the SM is pointing at 330 degrees (directly at the AP).
For those that are using the 50’ telescoping pole mast, do you have this mounted to your house or directly to the ground? I have a 15’ mast antenna on the roof of my house (which gives it about a total height of almost 40’). The surrounding trees are at about 55 to 65’ (guesstimate, I can’t really tell), so directly planting a 50’ pole would not help, and if anything get me to where the foliage is really thick. Do you know where you could find a 70 or 75’ pole for somewhat inexpensive?
I tried the software configuration settings that were suggested. It may have helped some, but it is still not a solid connection. Looks like I will need to extend the height of the AP above the tree line.
Not sure if anyone noticed or not, but the original post shows the information from the “sessions” page. It indicates that the RSSI @ AP when registered is -68dBm, while the SM has only -79dBm. I would have to think that there is some sort of antenna alignment issue.
My 2 cents.
Mike
I wouldn’t say an antenna alignment problem, but a 10 dB difference is something to look into. The only times I see those kinds of numbers is with antenna locations - diffraction and multipath can cause you problems like this. And being right against a steep slope will for sure give you some weird reflections and diffractions - I have seen microwave links that will change 15 dB just by moving a dish up or down 5 feet.
Aaron
Just and FYI, I have taken a 900Mhz SM (or AP if needed) with Intgrated Antenna and converted it to connectorized and it works very well. You can do this with the 900Mhz only (Not Moto Approved of course). We ordered a pigtail that connects directly to the connector on the radio board and then protrudes out just like the connectorized version. See the link below
http://jefatech.com/product/100NMMCX
It is an r/h MCX to N pigtail.
You can leave the filter in or take it out
G
You can do this with the 900Mhz only
For fun I took a 2.4 SM that had a broken case (installer dropped it and the reflector 40 ft off a house), pulled the panel antenna off and sourced a jack from RF that is similar to the ones in the 900s - works like a charm. And like you said, not Motorola approved. haha
Aaron
I was wondering when someone would mod an SM
That is good to know - I figured it was as simple as removing the internal antenna and installing a connector.
I tried a few more things but to no avail. I think I will have to try something completely different. I suppose fiber to a few neighbors isn’t such a big deal. I’m not trying to be a full-blooded WISP, just attempting offset the cost of my T1.
I suppose my AP and SMs will be spotlighting on ebay soon.
I really do appreciate the advice and suggestions! You guys truly do know your stuff!
Thanks again!
The AP does really need to be above the treeline especially if you are dealing with pine trees. Sometimes getting the SM higher in the air does not work. Lower and shooting up at a steeper angle through less total foliage works better. Or shotting through the bases of the trees is more effective.
Longleaf pines are the worst, the needle length is just right to screw with 900MHZ (digital paging here is worthless).
Anyway - height, height, height. 900MHz will go through some foliage, and absolutely no dirt, so careful terrain observation helps as well. Shooting between the tree trunks at ground level would be worth a try at very close range, but again entirely terrain-dependent. We’ve used this technique on some close-range building-to-building shots in the past.
If you just get nowhere with Canopy, you might try higher-powered 900MHz gear, such as WRAP- or ITX-based radios (www.titanwirelessonline.com). If you’re in a rural area where you won’t cause interference to other neighbors, you could use these to power your way through the foliage cheaper than you can build a 100’+ tower and buy Canopy.
If you had the money for a tower, you could just use high-powered WiFi, using the same radio model for the “AP” and “SM”. This could be a good alternative on a small, rural scale. The money would probably break even at that point with Canopy, but these radios are built with off-the-shelf parts, and are field-repairable cheaply.
Good luck!
(Thanks to Chris for these pics!)
Here is the coverage map for my area:
And fresnel zone: