darndest thing

hello folks,

recently I am having a new problem, and am at a loss as to the source of the problem.

on at least half of our APs, we are spontanesouly dropping some clients into idle mode. usually about half of the total clients connected cannot pass traffic.

I am using 5700APs. They HAD been running great for two years. but now the only fix to this problem is to reboot the AP, and then the SM. anyone have this problem before?

we are using the latest firmware, and use BAM 2.0 for authentication and rate limiting


Almost certainly an effect of interference.

I agree with Shaman. We had a similar situation and it turned out to be a competitor turning up a Canopy cluster approx. 800m from our site without doing any kind of research on the area - typical. I ended up contacting their lead tech and discussed configurations so we could collocate and do business in this area.

I would definitly look for interference and/or another WISP nearby your AP cluster.


Yes, that was interference

It can be another Canopy Cluster, or 802.11b/g Wireless Equipment as well and ofcourse with amplifier.

canopy cant fight with those 5-10watt AMP +24dbi reflector.

What we are doing rightnow is like chasing our own tail, move around the frequency to find the cleanest freq for SM and than change the AP freq.

using 24dbi modification reflector is helping rightnow. we are ordering 30dbi from equinox to see if it makes different when we put SM+ 30dbi.

Thanks for the tips folks. My partner and I drove around our little town this wekeend with a battery powered SM, and were quite surprised at what we saw. Turns out the city recently contracted an out of town “specialist” to set up canopy gear for them on our same freq!

the sad thing is, they have NO CMM, they clearly didn’t do a freq scan, and their solution to solving their early problems with connections was to keep upgrading to bigger antennas!

We have identified their frequencies and color codes, and now making sure we are clear by at least +/- 30. I hope that helps.

However, and interesting point was brought up here by mnet. You mention probs with colocating 2.4Gear? This may also be a source of problems for us. We colocate (about 10 feet from) 3 1watt 120 sectors, and have been for some time.

Could that be a problem as well? I never considered it because the frequencies are so far apart.

They need to get a cmm or you both will have trouble. It will run for awhile then you will just start dropping sm’s and having choppy data transfers

Call them up. ASAP. Tell them it’s first come, first served and you are just going to beat each other to death with frequency if they don’t co-operate with you. If they are boosting past the legal level, call up the gendarmes.

2.4GHz AP’s with amps create out-of band noise which can adversely affect 5.7GHz. However if you have been running with them for the last few years, I doubt that is your problem unless one of the 2.4AP’s or amps has malfunctioned.

Most likley it’s your new Canopy neighbors. Being it’s the City, I would not try to be too heavy handed with them. They have City Attorney’s…need I say more. Diplomacy goes a long way, as Shaman points out it’s in both of your interests to co-operate. Paint it in that light.

Before contacting them, try to determine the number of AP’s, and antennas used on each and if they are over powering, point out (in the most Diplomatic way you can) that they are over the legal limit on TX power. Offer to help them get the system set up right for a small fee.

I am always looking for a way to build relationships. If this were me, I would offer to maintain the system for them for a set monthly fee. For that I will co-ordinate the frequencies, monitor the network, and make service calls on an as-needed basis (charging of course). I would also offer to help them with their Homeland Security setup. They have the 4.9GHz spectrum, I would show them how to use it using MOTOMESH. Be the true expert. The jokers who set up the Canopy network for the City are obviously clueless, it should not be that hard to take that business from them.

My .02

Be the true expert. The jokers who set up the Canopy network for the City are obviously clueless,

I promise it was not me :D
I promise it was not me

haha Guilty conscience? haha


SO, interesting day yesterday. I called up both the city IT director and the contractors that set up the city. Both parties were either extremely ignorant, or pretending to be. The Specialist said “we didn’t think anyone was using 5.7 in that town, plus, no one paid us to do a site survey” I could barely contain myself, but was diplomatic, and told him I would be happy to come up with a comprehensive freq map for all of us. I mean, they got almost 20 K to set up 4 APs and 7 SMs! When I asked what frequencies they were on, they told me they weren’t too sure, but “Motorola now has a feature on their SMs that allow you to scan for APs” again I contained my frustration, and said, fine, I’ll help you out.

I came up with a map. It doesn’t look like they are competing with or freqs anymore, although the do have two that are +/-5 from our freq, but on unique color codes.

SO, the problem sector is improved, but still not excellent. I am frustrated because my numbers do not indicate interferance. All five clients on this AP are 1200RSSI or better, <5 jitter, and at least -70db.

I’m at a loss. I just called a few of the customers who tell me, it’s still slow. Grr, they each have 512 up/down with 1.5MB burst. Any other ideas?

AP tweaks? BAM tweaks? SM tweaks? Anything? :frowning:


They Need a CMM !!
With it you could probably even run the same freq’s

Or you could let them time off of you by using timming cable and sm unit to their Ap

I agree, but they insist they are using the APs as backhauls mostly, and that a CMM is out of the question "after all the money we spent trying to get this to work"

So, they are generating their own synch.

Not sure there is anything I can do here.

Different color code won’t help you. You need channel spacing, and it needs to be more the -/+5

All AP’s need GPS. Until they install it, you are hosed. They need to Red Label that sucker out TODAY for installation tomorrow. Tell them if they pay for the CMM and a half day of your time (@ 125/hr) you will take care of it. You will have to carry the cost of the CMM while their AP folks get the PO pushed through - that could be a month.

Now, if their AP’s are not in a cluster, then they need to isntall GPS at each site. The cost of the hardware is cheap: http://www.packetflux.com/

For today/tonight try turning on Transmit Frame Spreading on your AP’s, this is what it’s there for. No guarantees it will help, might make it worse.

20k to set it up? Did that include hardware? Even if it did, that’s good money and there is enough in there to take a half day and put up an SM to sniff around for another Canopy network. “Didn’t pay us for a site survey”…Puh-leeease

Been there done that the competetor not having a CMM

… I agree with Jerry. But in the short term. See if they will let you Set up a sm with a timing cable to their Ap Set it to Sync to Received Signal (Timing Port). This should take care of your problem.

of course the sm would be registered to your Ap to optain sync. it wouldn’t need to pass data just be registered.

PS. Transmit framing just caused ours to drop sm’s that much faster

Have you found the solution :?:

I haven’t really got a solid solution. We lost 28 clients yesterday. By morning we had five back with terrible jitter. We worked thought a new frequency, and were able to gain about 70% back. I have no idea what’s going on. This is different from my original problem sector. I wonder if the AP is hosed. Turned out to be a terrible day… clients get excellent signal. The AP seems weak on the Rx

You really need to let them sync off of you!! Let them know it will be no expense on their part but it will help both of you. Put an sm at there location sync cable to there ap or bh it will work.

put a big amp on for a few days and shut them down let them get a taste then they will be ready to deal. i guess that would work