Neat. If that's going to change post info here, otherwise I'm confident in what I posted.
@Douglas Generous wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but the force300csm is 2.4Ghz only?
We are a fully sync'd network. Too many issues with non sync'd links and colocation self interference. So all of our links are using a fixed frame anyway.
OK, cool. All the ePMP3000 and 3000L AP's are 5Ghz, and all of the Force 300 gear is 5Ghz - I'm not talking 2.4Ghz gear at all.
So, you say you are wanting to use Fixed Frame ratios and GPS Sync on your PTP backhauls, then as I mentioned, the solution would be a 3000L as your Master (5Ghz, Connectorized, GPS Sync) and then a Force 300csm for the Slave (5ghz, Connectorized) - plus whatever dish antennas you fancy. I just bought several links, and the radios cost $590 for both radios combined - and you'd have a GPS Sync'd PTP link. :)
The 300csm's cost about the same (a little less actually) than the old ePMP1000 5Ghz Lite AP - so we find them to be a great replacement as PTP Slaves.
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So anyone using Ubiquiti AC stuff ? We have a few AirFiber 11Ghz links which replaced AF5 links and got to say the AF5's and now the AF11's are pretty much set and forget but not cheap. How is there Gen2 AC stuff working these days ? I don't think I would ever consider Ubiquiti for PMP after using their N gear for several years but I never really had an issue with rockets for PTP. We actually still have two old Ubiquiti N Rocket PTP links (one 16 miles and another 11miles) that have been chugging along at about 70Mbps peak for ... wow 8 years now on the oldest one. They work well enough I forget we still have them.
Up until now I have been reasonably happy with the ePMP N gear. I despise the ePMP GUI , I'm less than happy with what seems to be abysmal quality control of the f190/200 and 300-25 but all in all the radios are good and they work very well for the price. The Force 200 was the apex of CPE radio design IMHO but it's been pretty much downhill since... I'm really trying to make the 3000L/300csm work for us if for no other reason than it's easier to administer a network when all the equipment is same. But 3000L and 300csm are seriously lacking in features at any price and their performance for their price IMHO.
So this week I'm going to put up our very first Miktrotik PTP link and Im setting here now looking at Ubiquiti's AC Rockets and thinking I'll order some.
You know, if I'm going to have to start providing 24v in my cabinets again and I can't do GPS Sync over power anyway then why not try Ubiquiti for less money and hay, I still get filters... Ug I can't believe I'm thinking of buying non-Airfiber ubiquiti again but for PTP, how bad can they be ? Maybe they are actually better than 3000L and 300cpe. If Ubiquiti won't cut it then I'll try some Mimosa PTP links next.
@ninedd wrote:...The 300csm's cost about the same (a little less actually) than the old ePMP1000 5Ghz Lite AP - so we find them to be a great replacement as PTP Slaves.
This is true, but they SHOULD cost about the same as the ePMP 1000 CSM. I am quite frustrated that the CSM price more than doubled relative to the 1000 series. I think I'm hitting the tipping point where the increased price of Cambium too much. I'm re-working all of my deployment expenses to see if it is time to switch to a better priced alternative.
I agree that it would be very useful to have a 3000L-Lite that is similar in price to the old 5 GHz Lite AP.
@uberdome wrote:
@ninedd wrote:...The 300csm's cost about the same (a little less actually) than the old ePMP1000 5Ghz Lite AP - so we find them to be a great replacement as PTP Slaves.
This is true, but they SHOULD cost about the same as the ePMP 1000 CSM. I am quite frustrated that the CSM price more than doubled relative to the 1000 series. I think I'm hitting the tipping point where the increased price of Cambium too much. I'm re-working all of my deployment expenses to see if it is time to switch to a better priced alternative.
I agree that it would be very useful to have a 3000L-Lite that is similar in price to the old 5 GHz Lite AP.
I hear you. I was just answering the OP's question about this
gbtel said: "Is there any plans for a connectorized CPE for the epmp3000 system? Will a connectorized radio be in the works for the 3000 series system"
<rant on>
But I hear you - we are at the same tipping point, and questioning the patch we've chosen. I've always believed that price isn't all that important - the product needs to do the job, and that's the most important thing. But yes - I also don't understand why a 300csm needs to have doubled - or even why it is (without an antenna) more expensive than a 300-13, 300-16, 300-19, or 300-25. I mean, isn't a F300-13 and a csm basically the same radio hardware? So if they don't put an antenna in... the price goes UP by $70? Is that 'gland' really worth $70 USD$ / $100 CAD$? Because DgjiKey has glands for $2.38 each.
It feels like yet again the marketing/business-major/pencil-pushers people upstairs deciding that the CSM is "used for a purpose" for which they can arbitrarily charge a higher price. For lots of what we need a CSM for, I'd be just as happy with a 300-13 type of form-factor case, with a couple pigtails instead of the 13db panel.
And while we're at it - why has the 3000L (without filters or even GPS puck!) gone up to $400 US / $550 CAD? Where is the 'entry level AP' now? And of course, they've dropped the AP mode from the CSM, the pencil-pusher business-majors upstaris caught on that people just might try to start out with Cambium less expensively. Can't have that! That might encourage new customers! $550 CAD for the entry level AP (plus antennas, and plus a separate GPS puck now).
And the full 3000M is $800 US$ / $1,100 CAD$ Really Cambium? $1,100 for a 'consumer priced' AP? Add the antennas, and it's retails at nearly $1,800 US / $2,500 CAD. $2,500 PER SECTOR?!?
And while I'm ranting - why is the 1000 AP Prices where they are either? I mean, even an ePMP1000 AP is nearly $800 CAD$ - plus antennas, with no entry level 1000 @ 2.4ghz either. So no 1000 2.4Ghz LITE, no 3000 L Lite, no 3000M LITE - - - to me these are steep disincentive to choosing Cambium. Whiereas most other companies will subsidize the AP cost, or even sell AP's at zero profit. To me, these decisions all feel like pencil-pushing bean-counters making these 'business decisions' while looking at spreadsheets, instead of talking and listening to WISPs. And to me - these are all BARRIERS to deciding to be a Cambium customer.
<rant off>
I'm with you on at least part of your rant @ninedd - It seems that whoever makes pricing decisions at Cambium went back to the "old way" with the 3k gear after we had a nice time with the 1k gear. Reasonably priced gear that performed well and was flexible in it's use.
The 3k gear is very good at this point, but it's not great, and the value proposition is getting worse as other stuff starts to mature, such as UBNT LTU. Cambium is again in a catch-up state. The price wouldn't actually be that big of a deal if things were totally working at this point that were promised before launch (BSA, Management radio in CPE, etc).
I hate the stock market, but Cambium's plummeting stock prices are a pretty good indication that it isn't just those of us who use this stuff that see something wrong.....
My biggest gripe about the 3k CSM - The stupid gland. Clearly nobody on the design team ever had to remove an ethernet cable from one of these while in an awkward position. It takes two hands and a flathead screwdriver or similar to depress the clip on the RJ45, after you have unscrewed the gland and slid it down the cable.
Good feedback here. Some comments:
The 300CSM is certainly a bit higher priced than what we would have wanted but we also saw it as a very low runner product and are therefore unable to leverage volume. Based on some of the feedback on this thread, we will investigate options to introduce lower cost CSMs if possibe. We did build the 11AC product line based on the 11AC Wave 2 chipset which naturally cost quite a bit more than a highly commoditized 11n chipset so its hard to match the pricing of 1000CSM. We are also ensuring out of band emissions, tx masks are all met so you will always see things like switched filter banks etc on our hardware that increases the cost. However, I do understand the challenge in the big difference.
The ePMP3000 is by no means a consumer grade product. 4 Tx, 4 Rxs, onboard FPGA to support BSA, SFP, dynamic filtering etc..etc certainly does not put it in a consumer grade product category and thus the higher pricing.
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@Jacob Turner wrote:My biggest gripe about the 3k CSM - The stupid gland. Clearly nobody on the design team ever had to remove an ethernet cable from one of these while in an awkward position. It takes two hands and a flathead screwdriver or similar to depress the clip on the RJ45, after you have unscrewed the gland and slid it down the cable.
I just experienced the gland issue, brings back fond (heavy sarcasm applied) memories of the ptp500 radios. Definitely not a good design if you have to use a tool to depress the locking tab. Especially up a tower, stretched at an odd angle to see what your doing, usually in bad weather too!
Gland ports are best suited for fiber optic SFPs. Something that hangs out a bit so that you can actually get your fingers on it.
Possible solution to this would be to have the vertical cable terminate in a box on the tower leg, then use a jumper to go from the radio to the box. Need to change a radio? Add premade jumper to radio before climbing, swap radio and jumper together.
Sakid,
We realize that there are some added expenses in the epmp3000 series that are not in the 1000/2000series, but for what we do it is important that we are able to have a competitive advantage over the big companies whom under serve areas until someone like us tries to pickup the scraps. This advantage has always been in good, reliable hardware that is cost effective. I dont mind paying a small premium for a full capabilities radio when I need such a beast, but for a simple backhaul to feed an offshoot tower where I am most likely going to berely break even? Not going to happen, I start looking at alternatives to the problem and as much as I dislike Ub they are catching up.