Is there any talk of the spatial diversity needed for massive mimo? Ie: in a 60 degree sector what degree of separation will two sms need to be for the ap to simultaneously talk to the subs? If it’s minor 5 degree or something small we could see some major throughput improvements but if it’s very wide degree of separation needed then you’ll see much smaller increases as population tends not to be perfectly laid out over a sector.
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From what I've been told for maximum MU-MIMO gains, there needs to be quite a bit of spatial diversity between clients, also the more clients the better.
Dear Cambium Networks
We are currently evaluating your 450 hardware in an exercise for a new 6 sector base station to replace our Ubiquiti hardware.
The current 450 hardware which we are testing is extremely slow in total thoughput capacity per sector compared to some of our other options available on the market.
Do you have a timeline when the 450m hardware will be released as it seems pointless investing in the slower 450 technology right now as demand for speed from our clients is much greater than what the 450 platform can deliver today.
Looking forward to hearing from someone.
Kindest Regards
James
Stay tuned to this thread as well as the Go Massive site for additional information... we'll be releasing additional information as we move closer to launch.
How about a trade in program for the 3.6 and 5 ghz PMP450 AP's we are buying right now towards the future PMP450m?
@CambiumMatt wrote:Stay tuned to this thread as well as the Go Massive site for additional information... we'll be releasing additional information as we move closer to launch.
Dear Matt
I am really after a launch date.. I need to establish if i should wait for Cambium.... or should I invest in Radwin / Mimosa instead.... Building a new base station and replacing hardware is not something you do every day...
Please provide a launch date so I can understand our investment timeline !
Kindest Regards
James
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@JJBB-m21 wrote:Dear Cambium Networks
We are currently evaluating your 450 hardware in an exercise for a new 6 sector base station to replace our Ubiquiti hardware.
The current 450 hardware which we are testing is extremely slow in total thoughput capacity per sector compared to some of our other options available on the market.
Do you have a timeline when the 450m hardware will be released as it seems pointless investing in the slower 450 technology right now as demand for speed from our clients is much greater than what the 450 platform can deliver today.
Looking forward to hearing from someone.
Kindest Regards
James
Extrememly slow compared to what? Furthermore slow is a nebulous term... do you mean that the overall AP to SM speed is slow? Do you mean that you're not satisfied with the AP capacity? Do you mean that capacity at the AP is good, but that the SM throughput is slow? Are you talking about the latency between the AP and SM? The list goes on...
The best thing to do is to start with a baseline for comparision... A Cambium PMP450i AP using this channel width, with this noise floor and this many clients versus... Vendor X, using same channel width, on same channel ,with same number of clients.
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the guy above seems like he evaluated the pmp450 the way most people do that dont get it ... but XYZ does 1gigabit wifi outdoor.. till you realize its 80mhz and craps out in noise and many many customers
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@Chris_Bay wrote:
@doush wrote:Massive MIMO is 4x4 or 8x8 ?
they haven't said anything on the details regarding the exact mimo configuration, or at least i haven't seen it. but if you listen to the webcast about it, a few key things are said. most impressive is " beyond gigabit per sector capacity"
holly cow 14x14 mimo..... i was thinking i was dream at hoping for 8x8 lol.
Hey Eric
Since it is a 90 degree antenna array and they said it should be able to MU 7 Sm units at a single point in time, 90 divided by 7 is 12.857, so 13, then one would assume that 13 degrees are all that is needed between Sm radios. I would like to hear something from cambium on this. Also what is the MU capabilities on the up link, I figure that they are less than the down link. I can see 7 different outgoing transmissions at one time but 7 incoming transmissions is a different story.
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Good questions...
The way that beamforming works across the sector is not quite like this... in fact, in the center of the sector (i.e. boresight or 0 degrees azimuth), the "sub-sector" can be more narrow than ~13 degrees, and gets down to about 6.5 degrees. As the beam moves off of boresight, the width increases, and towards the sector edge, it becomes ~13 degrees or so as noted.
The sounding and grouping algorithms of cnMedusa takes all of this into account when determining which SMs it can group together and perform simultaneous communication with.
Regarding uplink Multi-User MIMO capabilities, this won't be in the first software release, but is certainly planned for future software updates. Uplink beamforming does occur, so there is certainly system link budget benefits in the uplink, similar to that of the ePMP 2000.
That makes clear sense. The closer you are to zero the smaller the degree of angle to prevent self interference on the upload while clients at -45 and +45 are father apart on the antenna and their receiving antennas on the ap should have plenty of directional shield, similar to the 45 deg cluster on a tower. Thank you for the quick response.
Any 'Massive' plans for the 2.4ghz band?
Not yet. We are committed to 3 GHz as the next priority after the 5 GHz 450m is shipping. Further frequency releases are currently under consideration.
2.4 ghz in FSK has been very good to us in rural areas. Some tree penetration and still 20mhz channels. FSK is just out of steam. 5ghz is strictly clear LOS from our experience. 3.6 has an uncertain future and likely will stick us with only 10mhz channels.
If we saw a more certain 2.4 ghz upgrade path we would likely be rolling out 450 in that band.
@hci wrote:2.4 ghz in FSK has been very good to us in rural areas. Some tree penetration and still 20mhz channels. FSK is just out of steam. 5ghz is strictly clear LOS from our experience. 3.6 has an uncertain future and likely will stick us with only 10mhz channels.
If we saw a more certain 2.4 ghz upgrade path we would likely be rolling out 450 in that band.
Have you tried out PMP450 2.4 or ePMP 2.4? Both products provide an excellent upgrade path for PMP100 2.4 deployments. We're using ePMP 2.4 at some of our smaller sites, and we've used PMP450 at some of our larger, more interference prone sites. We've had excellent success with both products.
If enough people buy PMP450 on 2.4 and bug Matt Mangriotis, we might see a 450m on 2.4 :-)
So what you believe is the maximum capacity that 450m can achieve in downlink, assuming the total is 400Mbps
Thanks
@connectaamerica wrote:So what you believe is the maximum capacity that 450m can achieve in downlink, assuming the total is 400Mbps
Thanks
Could you please clarify your question? The 400mbps figure is an aggragate total sector capacity. Assuming that a 450i SM is used, the maximum downlink throughput could reach over 100mbps using a 20MHz channel width under ideal conditions. With future firmware updates and larger channel widths even higher throughput at the SM is possible.
The older 450 SM's are limited in processing power and PPS and reach a ceiling of around 70mbps using a 20MHz channel width. Although these older SM's will support larger channel widths with future firmware updates, you will not see performance improvements beyond the 70mbps ceiling.
Eric,
Do you know if the r200p or 201p will power a 450i sm from the wan port? It lists the pmp 450 and epmp 1000 sm units. Also it would be nice to have some info on the cmm5. If we are to deploy the 450m ap then we need gigsync ports on our cmm units.
@John Ockert wrote:Eric,
Do you know if the r200p or 201p will power a 450i sm from the wan port? It lists the pmp 450 and epmp 1000 sm units. Also it would be nice to have some info on the cmm5. If we are to deploy the 450m ap then we need gigsync ports on our cmm units.
No, it will not. The R20xP is Canopy 29.5vDC (10/100 interface, spare wires -4,5/+7,8) output on the WAN port.
The only 450i SM that is 29.5vDC is the 900, all the rest are 802.3at POE, which is 48/56vDC.
Would've been nice if they could've made the 450i stuff support 20-60vDC. Oh well.
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