Hi All
I am hopping that someone can provide me some help on my wisp project
I have read everything I can get ahold of but still have a number of
unanswered questions all advice and asistance will be greatly
appreciated I know this is a broad range of questions so I will try
to be as detailed as I can also please excuse my crude Illistrations
its the best I could manage:
:idea:(Main Tower){5.7Ghz BH@ 10Mbps}(Rural Tower 2) 
Distance between the towers is = 6.5 Mi.
Main Tower
Landscape is basically flat with some gently rolling hills intermitant forested areas
consisting of medium to large sized trees aprox.
54 - 70 ft high of pine, maple, spruce & cedars ect.
Elevation = 190+ ft.
above mean sea level
Tower 2:
Landscape is basically the same as the Main tower
Elevation = 200+ ft.
above mean sea level
using 1- 900mhz cyclone omni on each tower i am hoping for a realistic
service coverage area of 5- 6 mi. for up to 200 customers per tower
for a Possible 400 subs also at the main tower I would like to
eventually have some type of mesh/hotspot covering a range of 1.5 mi.
ideally with standard 802.11 gear all equipment will be connected
to an airlock 330lc (www.lok.com) to handle billing, bandwidth,dhcp
web server ect… and eventual internet pay on demand services
I am also planing on bonding 3 or 4 (6mbps Download & 800 kbps Upload)
high speed dsl lines to initially start my service to save the cost of
a t1 untill sufficent client subscriptions require it.
I will not be offering any hosting and email services at least not
until there are sufficent requests for them. spectrum site analysis is
being conducted very soon
Questions:
1) How high should my towers be for backhaul? how how high should the 900mhz
omni be mounted? would a monopole or a 90’ telephone pole suffice?
I have seen other functioning towers at local schools they seem to have
quite a bit of sway is this normal? does it cause any issues? they also do
not seem to be as high as I thought they would be to work say 75-80 ft.
is 5-6mi a realistis coverage area with 900mhz equipment given my landscape
if not how far?
2) Tower 2 may eventually have backhaul duties to another tower cleverly
called tower 3 which may also have another 900mhz omni servicing 200 subs
is a 10mbps backhaul enough for this if not what is?
3) if I have grossly underestimated the the amount of my subs and they were
say doubled to 400 people per tower would the omni handle this? can I just
add another omni? or would I have to then change to using an AP cluster ?
Would the 10mbps backhaul still be sufficient if not which 20-30-60 Mbps
4) what equipment will I need to initially bond the 4 or even 8 more dsl
lines I would like them bonded before they connect to the airlok device so
that I dont have to buy the link controls from airlok which are quite
expensive the box costs enough already it will also need to have some sort
of load balancing feature how many clients could these bonded lines serve in
reality and still provide good service if a normal basic sub is
512k up & 256 down or what should recommended basic sub packages speed be?
5) What is the best radio or topographical map software ideally I would like
something that if a potential client calls in for service and gives us their
emergency fire number we can punch that in and quickly tell if they are in
our coverage area. I am located in a very rural area of southern ontario
canada.
6) is a cmm with gps required at each tower or just at the noc will a
cmm micro due for either or for the time being?
7) I would very much like to have a true plug and play self install
indoor box 700mhz setup like waveip or waveriders stuff to avoid site
installs altogether but its too expensive right now if I could eventually
afford it would the rest of the canopy backhauls & AP play nice with the
700mhz stuff?
8) Should I be using the Adavantage stuff? Whats the difference really?
is AES or filtering is it something I should be making shure I have in my
initial startup equipment purchase?
Why is there connectorised equipment to install a external antenna should
I buy those? does this in effect makea standard canopy AP a omni?
9) I am not totally set on motos canopy equipment but it does seem to have a
complete package at reasonable prices to make a initial low investment start
up possible especially the cost of the canopy lite system SU module.
Any equipment recomendations? thoughts on the reality of my Plan?
I know this is a long post and is asking alot of time from anyone who might
be willing to respond… I absolutely DO appreciate anyone gives any of their
time to clarify any of these questions for me
Thank - You !!! in advance
Best Regards 2 U & Yours
Mark
1) How high should my towers be for backhaul? how how high should the 900mhz
omni be mounted? would a monopole or a 90’ telephone pole suffice?
I have seen other functioning towers at local schools they seem to have
quite a bit of sway is this normal? does it cause any issues? they also do
not seem to be as high as I thought they would be to work say 75-80 ft.
is 5-6mi a realistis coverage area with 900mhz equipment given my landscape
if not how far?
Get the AP above the tree line if possible. This will give your distant customers the best chance of making a connection.
A stable mount is important, the antenna wagging around will increase jitter.
2) Tower 2 may eventually have backhaul duties to another tower cleverly
called tower 3 which may also have another 900mhz omni servicing 200 subs
is a 10mbps backhaul enough for this if not what is?
The cost difference between 10 and 20 is not that much - better to just get the faster BH.
3) if I have grossly underestimated the the amount of my subs and they were
say doubled to 400 people per tower would the omni handle this? can I just
add another omni? or would I have to then change to using an AP cluster ?
Would the 10mbps backhaul still be sufficient if not which 20-30-60 Mbps
200 on a single AP is the absolute max. You will need to go to a cluster system at some point, probably before 200. You can use 3ea 120deg sector antennas and 3ea 900AP’s increasing your capacity to 600 users and improve the range as well.
4) what equipment will I need to initially bond the 4 or even 8 more dsl
lines I would like them bonded before they connect to the airlok device so
that I dont have to buy the link controls from airlok which are quite
expensive the box costs enough already it will also need to have some sort
of load balancing feature how many clients could these bonded lines serve in
reality and still provide good service if a normal basic sub is
512k up & 256 down or what should recommended basic sub packages speed be?
several issues with using DSL:
1. 90% of providers will not allow reselling of DSL.
2. QOS
3. Reliability
Better off using a fractional T1 at 768k, and then increasing the speed as you add users. Alternately there may be a wireless provider in Ontario that would be willing to sell you bandwidth at a reasonable cost. You will have the expense of the radios but no local loop charges. We pay 200/Meg this way, plus we can scal up to 45Mbps if needed.
5) What is the best radio or topographical map software ideally I would like
something that if a potential client calls in for service and gives us their
emergency fire number we can punch that in and quickly tell if they are in
our coverage area. I am located in a very rural area of southern ontario
canada.
I have been using Google Earth - I paid for the enhanced service so I can calulate distance.
6) is a cmm with gps required at each tower or just at the noc will a
cmm micro due for either or for the time being?
Put a CMM at the first tower. Set the BH at that tower to Master. Set the other BH’s to slave. You can carry the sync out of the BH slave to the AP’s on the remote towers. When you go to a cluster on the remote tower you will need to upgrade to a CMM.
7) I would very much like to have a true plug and play self install
indoor box 700mhz setup like waveip or waveriders stuff to avoid site
installs altogether but its too expensive right now if I could eventually
afford it would the rest of the canopy backhauls & AP play nice with the
700mhz stuff?
If you mean frequency-wise, nobody can answer that question as nobody has done it. We can only hope.
8) Should I be using the Adavantage stuff? Whats the difference really?
is AES or filtering is it something I should be making shure I have in my
initial startup equipment purchase?
All 900 is Advantage. Get Advantage BH’s - lower latency, better perormance.
Why is there connectorised equipment to install a external antenna should
I buy those? does this in effect makea standard canopy AP a omni?
the antenna in the integrated 900AP is a 60degree 12.5dB antenna. You will need the connectorized in order to use the Omni. The Omni you need to use is a Horizontal 900MHz and costs about 1000US
the connectorized 900 SM’s allow you to use diffeernt antennas. We have seen that a 13dBi Yagi can perform a little better than the integrated 12.5dB in the SM’s. For your closer customer you can use lower gain 8dBbi Maxrad panels, and for your distant customer use a 13dBi Yagi.
9) I am not totally set on motos canopy equipment but it does seem to have a
complete package at reasonable prices to make a initial low investment start
up possible especially the cost of the canopy lite system SU module.
Any equipment recomendations? thoughts on the reality of my Plan?
The Canopy Lite is only for 5.7GHz - not going to help you with all the trees.
there are alot of guys in pretty much your same situation making good use of the Canopy 900MHz in high foliage environments. It’s not a magic bullet, but it works pretty well.
Thank You Jerry
1
how high would you say the backhauls should be placed for a shot at the other tower 6.5mi. away or is that to far a 90’ pole would have me above the tree line by perhaps 10’ - 15 ’ max what would the range of the CPE then be
2
I will look for a 20
3
I am going to delay my scheduled marketing plans a bit as I am not prepaired for the added expenses required by these extra APs at least not until a small test of some personal friends is succefully deployed even then
It is very very possible that the demand generated by even word of mouth may well exceed my startup budget. 
4
I had mention to the isp that I was planing on bonding and adding dsl’s as necessary for bandwidth one of my sidelines for this start up is a small internet cafe and LAN gaming facility and hopefully a pay on demand hotspot (which may have to wait ) to me this is reselleing their service they seemed very ok with it mind you I neglected to mention the ISP part 
would you have any wireless provider sources that I could contact for pricing & availability
5 Thanx will try google earth - radio mobile is very unfriendly
6 Thanx
7 I shall hope allong with the rest
8 Advantage it is
9
Thats pretty much a deal breaker really the cpe is just to costly there must be a cheaper solution please tell me there is lol!
Very few people would go for that expense around here I was prepaired to take a small loss on the installs with the SU at a 200 dollar or so cost but double or more no way
MOTO send out the 900mhz lites @ sub $ 200.00 prices please
Thank You Again Jerry I truely appreciate the time you have spent on my behalf answering these questions
Best Regards
Mark
Mark, when you are at the top of one tower, can you see the other tower? 6 miles isnt that far… so connecting the bh’s shouldn’t be a problem in my opinion.
Hello wirelessSolutions
the towers are not constructed I am still trying to determine the necessary heights. I am hoping that I can use either large telephone poles or Tv type towers to save costs the savings could be used to fund either more backhaul gear or sectorised aps
having very little luck with radio mobile I have the maps and all the files just seems to come up blank i must be missing something in the file format conversion setup
Thanx
M
what part of the world are you in?
Hey Dawg,
As wireless said, 6 miles is not that far. With reflectors you will have plenty or signal.
You want to make sure your Fresnel zone is clear. More on Fresnel Zones here: http://www.zytrax.com/tech/wireless/fresnel.htm
We had a BH20 8’ off the ground pointing up at our tower at 3800’. One end had a reflector, the other did not. Worked fine for several years.
Get some TAP software and run the plots between your towers and you clients. If you have at least 70ft of clearence to LOS you should be alright.
Use radio mobile or the Canopy Link tool ( listed in the software section of the canopy site ). I prefer radio mobile as I have used it alot and I am already fimiliar with RF, if you need the radio power levels and stats they are usually listed in the canopy user guide which can be downloaded from the canopy site as well.
As for towers, I would suggest avoiding using a telephone pole or a cheap end user TV tower, most old TV anntenna towers that I have seen are fairly light duty and where not designed to be sectioned up as high as you need to go from the sounds of things, and this brings up another matter, wind load, if you will more than likely need to put a reflector on ( at least at one of ends of your link, I usually do it to both if possible ). A stong enough wind, say 80 km/h up to 120 km/h ( I’ve done this work in some windy areas ) this would cause the tower after time to start to twist and bend in the area where the backhaul is mounted. Be careful.
Also the 200 max clients on an a cyclone AP is actually overloading them quite a bit, I have talked to some of there reps and they actually recommend after around 150 client start to think about putting up a second cyclone if possible with a CMM unit ( use a CMM3[micro] they save a lot of headache running an extra timing cable, and the cmm2’s are going to be dicontinued at the the end of the year anyway ).
Also another note on external anntenna for the 9000SMC radios, there are 17dBi yagi’s available; these work really well for penetrating trees, but beware that multipath is still an issue that can come up, depending on the amount of foilage ’ obsticales you are shooting through.
can you get me the GPS for your 2 locations, i’ll run a path analyses