reflector for 13+ mile 5.7Ghz connection?

First off, I need to forewarn everyone that I am a newbie to this field - I am a lowly subsciber to a wireless ISP and having some issues. Bear with me if the terminology I use is incorrect, or I am asking just plain stupid questions.

Last year my ISP tried Canopy off my house roof to their main tower about 13 miles away and did not get enough signal stability to intall it, so instead I got a 2.4ghz Tranzeo which is fed off another “relay” site of theirs 2 miles away ( a 70’ farm silo w/ a 5.7 canopy and rebroadcasting via an omni ). My wife’s VPN connection to work is marginally uesable, and there is so much jitter in my system that VIOP applications such as MajicJack won’t work ( 100+ ms inbound jitter ). My package was only 450/128 kbs.

After some begging this spring, my ISP agreed to come out ( at my expense ) and try a 5.7 canopy off my 70’ silo. Their main site is broadcasting off antennas 500’ up the tower, and there is nothing but corn, farm sites, and a river valley between us. I can see their whole tower on the ridge plain as day. They used a standard solid reflector ( 27RD? ).

The install was seemingly sucessful. The tech left me last week w/ RSSI about 450, jitter around 5-7, and power level -83dbm. He said he was surprised it was “that high” and off he went. Unfortunaltely about 2 hours later the RSSI went to 0 and remains there 98% of the time. It only occasionally goes up to 400+ for a bit and works for a 15 minute spell, then back to 0. I know when I call back, I’ll see the tech come back, take down the Canopy and throw the Tranzeo back up.

I really want the canopy to work for obvious reasons ( I can get their 512/512 kbs package for the same price ), so have been looking what options exist. Could I buy the WARM-32 grid antenna and remount their canopy SM on it and give that a shot? It seems I am right on the fringe and from what I’ve read on this great site the WARM-32 might get me there. I have a neighbor about 3/4 mile closer to them than I am and he’s had canopy running great for a couple years now. Climbing the silo and doing the work myself is not a problem.

What am I missing or what problems would I create if I did this? I’m 50% farm boy and 50% engineer so this is bugging the crap out of me as I know there is a solution one way or another.

Warm32 will give you +6dB over a 27RD.

I have tested the Warm32 and based on your information I suspect it will solve your problem.

Spend $20 and get yourself a headphone kit. Ebay has them all day long. That will enable you to find the “sweet spot” when you aim it.

If you share where you are located I can’t speak for anyone else here but I know I wouldn’t personally have a problem helping you get it going if you weren’t too far away.

Hey!

It does seem like it may just be slightly out of alignment. -83 dBM and a jitter of 4-7 is a sketchy signal. The river valley inbetween you and the tower site is an interesting wrinkle: I’m not sure if that would cause significant flux in a 5.7 (I haven’t had any practical experience with that) but it might.

The other thing that occurs to me is that you might be right on the edge of the tower’s range: Most people set their 5.7 canopy gear at 14 miles, since longer range settings impact throughput at the client end. If you happen to be right near the edge of the signal range, and can only manage to get a dBm below -80, I doubt it will be stable. You really need to get in the 75-79 range or it’s always going to be beating you up.

Another possible problem is that there AP may not be pointed at you. You might be hitting a Side Lobe on the AP and that is why your signal is weak.

I ordered a WARM-32 reflector and will give that a shot. I’ll report back.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Any more are welcome.

I had a 3 mile link(shooting throught an opening between a footbal stadium endzone and a 12 story building))that I tried to use with a stinger , then a 27rd and then went ot the warm 32. With the stinger I ran about -80 db, the dish I got about -77 to -74 db, and with the warm32 I went down to -65 to -68db. It has not dropped since putting up the warm32…They just work…

Just a quick update - I did order the Warm-32 and got it installed last night. It was dusk / dark by time I was done, so I have more fine tuning to do later next week.

Best signal strength I could get is RSSI = 550, Jitter = 4 and power = -82 db. I’m concerned on the -82 - I was hoping I could get into the mid 70’s.

So far it’s held rock solid and a VIOP speed test runs w/ great results now, so I guess that’s all I can ask for. I’ll see if a headphone tune works better than having one of my kids constantly hitting “refresh” and barking out the numbers into a radio.

If anyone has newbie aiming advice, I’ll take that too!

Good to know. Jitter of 4 is OK. Is that in 1X or 2X?

-82 is lower that we’d allow, but of course the true test is how well it works.

Using the tone, sweep horizontally and vertically until you get the strongest tone.


Show your ISP and then charge them 3 months free service for doing their job for them.

i agree with jerry, doing this for six years now i know that a install like this can be a great hassel for a isp, however i would have done all of this for you in a second seeing how much you were willing to help out. Sounds to me like you should see if they need a new area installer :), great job, little note, we have many 12+ mile 5.7 links and i like you rssi and jitter, as mentioned -82 is a bit low, but if it holds great. Good Work for a SUBSCRIBER!

Sounds like the jitter has stabilized. That is a big thing when it comes to link reliability and stability.

For a subscriber doing his own work, good job. I wouldn’t have made a sub go through what you have but great work none the less :smiley:

I have installed 5400SM on 21.03 miles with RSSI 440 Jitter 5 and -80dBm.
And work but uplink is 30/100 downlink is ok 75/100. Internet is Ok 1024/128.(download/upload).
The things is that I have installed with dish smaller that RD27 I think if I try with RD27 it’s gonna be much better.

Thanks for all your expert advice for me ( a lowly subsciber ). The WARM-32 seems to have mostly solved the problem, but I was hoping for a bit more strength.

I was back up this morning with a headphone tone tool. My original aiming was about as good as it will get I guess. I’m still hovering around the RSSI 500 level - I was hoping from what I read on the WARM-32 that I might get better than that. It seems that atmospheric conditions still have an affect - I run a VOIP speed test a time or two per day out of curiosity and get poor jitter results occasionally.

Here are my results from the Canopy General status page ( I don’t have the user name or password info to be able to log in beyond this, is there a way to find them other than asking my ISP ( I doubt they would give them to me )):


Home Copyright Login
Home
Copyright
Login
Account: none
Level: GUEST General Status
Home => General Status
5.7GHz - Subscriber Module - 0a-00-3e-f8-76-a6
Device Information
Device Type : 5.7GHz - Subscriber Module - 0a-00-3e-f8-76-a6
Software Version : CANOPY 8.1.5 SM-DES
Software BOOT Version : CANOPYBOOT 1.0
Board Type : P10
FPGA Version : 102606
PLD Version : 9
Uptime : 8d, 15:23:44
System Time : 17:32:23 05/31/2008
Ethernet Interface : 100Base-TX Full Duplex
Antenna Polarization : Vertical

Subscriber Module Stats
Session Status : REGISTERED VC 43 Rate 2X/1X
Registered AP : 0a-00-3e-fb-7f-46
RSSI : 511
Power Level : -82 dBm
Jitter : 4
Air Delay : 1467 approximately 13.61 miles (71883 feet)

Make sure you have the WARM 32 assembled with the grills running vertically - it matters.

Jerry has it dead on. Make sure you assembled it right. Also if it didn’t add enough/any gain, the problem may be that your reflector isn’t any larger than your previous one. In 5.8, the WARM-39 has 29.3dB of gain instead of only 27.4dB with the WARM-32. (I’m not sure if that includes the SM’s built in antenna gain, or not. The 27RD is supposed to have 26dB of gain including the built-in antenna.)

I think the WARM-39 is about equivalent to the largest Pac Wireless reflector, if not slightly higher gain. It’s pretty tough to get any more gain than the WARM-39 without getting really BIG and unwieldy equipment. Wirelessguys seems to have the WARM-32 for like $79 and the WARM-39 for $136, which should give you an idea of the size difference :slight_smile: Almost twice the signal (every 3dB is double) for a significant increase in surface area (and wind load)

-82dbM ???

cc cc cc

maybe you would try with 3m satellite dish and remember try to fix your problem :wink:

The wires on the reflector are running vertically, so I can’t blame it on that. As far as the earlier post regarding gain, From what I read the 27RD has 18db gain plus the antenna = 7 gives you 25-ish. The Warm32 has 27db plus the antenna = 7 gives you 34-ish… I may have that wrong but that’s what I understood.

Here is a thought - would a 225’ or 250’ Cat5 run before I get to the power injector at the router have any affect? I know data wise it is supposed to be good to 300’+ on a single run, but what I’m wondering is if all those feet of light gauge wire add enough resistance that the voltage at the antenna aren’t what they should be from the POE ? I just got around to burying my conduit today so I have a back-ache that is crying out “holy crap that was a long way”. Just a thought.

Ok, I finally got around to getting pics hosted ( thanks to Jerry ) so you can peek at the Warm32 mounting. Let me know if you see anything wrong with the install.








I’m still getting RSSI in the low 500’s and running between -81 and -83bd power. When weather moves in such as a thunderstorm I lose the link completely, but it comes back after an hour or so.

I may have to track down the recipe to get a Primestar dish up there next!

I think I’d have to upgrade my mount to try kalcho’s 3m satellite dish thought…

I’m going to to an educated guess and say you’re way too close to the metal on the silo. Typically we use a 10’ length of 2" EMT (Conduit) and put the SM at the top of it.