50Mbps to 200 Mbps

Service Providers Broadband Service Provider
1

Dear frds...

i am new to this coummuinty and my 1st post in this.

i have been in wisp business for 8 years , i started with mikrotik and now i am using ubnt gear, i have almost more then 1000 ubnt radios installed all are ubnt.

now a days there is a huge demand in internet speed, nobody want internet speed below 50 Mbps.

but right now i could hardly think to provide 100 mbps or more on ubnt gear (Airmax Ac) in PTMP.

there airfiber ltu PTMP is not availble for end user. ( CPE ) yet to be released.I cannot wait for that long..

now if i go with cambium what product i could choose to offer 100 Mbps  or more speed plans.(future scaling)

which model for access point and which sector?

which cpe?

and i want to keep cpe cost as low as possible.?

i am looking for a coverage of 1 km from each base station. and i will put another tower after 1 km something like micropop. and i wannt to connect at least 80 cpe to one access point without compromising the quality and bandwidth. i also need latency under 5 ms.

what cambium have to offer for me, will it be eqaully good as Airfiber ltu.

Regards.

2

It's going to be very difficult to provide 100mbps plans to any substantial number of clients using any manufacturer's wireless technology.

Your best bet is to start hanging PMP450m in 5GHz and hope that there are clean 40MHz channels available. You'll then need to try to keep installs within 2-3km and make sure that you have good signal and SnR. You'll want to use all newer 450b client radios. With this setup you should get around 1gbps of aggregate traffic at the AP, which should allow for around 10 clients (assuming they're all dispersed optimally in the coverage area to trigger MU-MIMO) to use their 100mbps at once without impacting each other.

When ePMP 3000 comes out here shortly, if you have clean 40 or 80MHz channels, and use the F300 clients you could start providing 100mbps plans. I don't have exact numbers because it's still in beta and being optimized, but you could possibly get 400mbps aggregate out of a 40MHz channel and perhaps double that with an 80MHz channels. This again assumes that you have optimal dispersion of clients within the coverage are to trigger MU-MIMO.

Last but not least... UBNT's LTU is currently not available for PtMP use, and has been repeatidly delayed going on 2 years now. Originally UBNT staff said that the AF5XHD would receive a firmware update to allow PtMP use, but that plan has been shelved and they've said they're going to have to make another LTU radio specifically for PtMP. LTU claims to have 20 bp/Hz efficiency, but this is for PtP use and assume that you can achieve stable 4096QAM, which is very difficult if not impossible in most realistic deployments. While data on LTU PtMP performance isn't available yet, typically a PtMP scheduler results in a lower bp/Hz due to overhead. This is in contrast to PMP450m 5GHz, a mature product that has shipped thousands of units, which can give you 60+ bp/Hz efficiency, and over time there will be additional optimization to squeeze even more bp/Hz out of it.

To give you some quick examples of what you'd need to deploy with LTU and PMP450m to provide 100mbps plans in a 90deg coverage area:

- Hang 3 LTU PtMP AP's and use 30deg horns to give you 90deg coverage area. This config would use 120MHz or more of spectrum (due to possibly needing guard bands) and require most clients to be within 1km or less to achieve 4096QAM. 

- Hang 1 PMP450m 5GHz AP, which provides 90deg coverage area. This config would use 40MHz of spectrum and if clients are within the 3km 'sweet spot' you should be able to get most clients at or near the max modulation of 256QAM... which is far easier to attain in the real world then 4096QAM.

My question to you is why do you believe that your customers need 100mbps plans? We regularly compete with cable and DSL which claim to provide 600mbps and 300mbps respectively and our plans don't even come close to that. Our top tier plan is 20mbps, but we can provide custom plans up to around 50mbps. What we've found is that most consumers don't actually need 100mbps, let alone 50mbps. Instead we focus on quality of service, excellent tech support, being the "locals" choice, having unlimited data and no contracts, etc... all of these things resonate more with clients then an arbitrary mbps number that they may or may not actually need and that the provider might not actually be able to reliably deliver.

6 Likes
3
Thanks for your broad reply.
i have not use any cambium radios yet and i donot know how cambium categeories its radios.
like ubnt do as Airmax, Airmax and Airfiber and latest the awaiting AF LTU. and we understand that AF LTU would be best if we got them in our hand for PTMP.
but i dont even have idea which is better epmp or pmp of cambium. 
Your best bet is to start hanging PMP450m in 5GHz and hope that there are clean 40MHz channels available. You'll then need to try to keep installs within 2-3km and make sure that you have good signal and SnR. You'll want to use all newer 450b client radios. With this setup you should get around 1gbps of aggregate traffic at the AP, which should allow for around 10 clients (assuming they're all dispersed optimally in the coverage area to trigger MU-MIMO) to use their 100mbps at once without impacting each other.

is 450m only support 10 CPE radios, or just you have put it in this way that i wanna offer 100 Mbps plan, and if i wish to give 50 mbps then CPE could increase to 20, please answer.

When ePMP 3000 comes out here shortly, if you have clean 40 or 80MHz channels, and use the F300 clients you could start providing 100mbps plans. 

is ePMP 3000 is the most pwerful AP to provide 100 mbps plan with handsome no of CPE?

Last but not least... UBNT's LTU is currently not available for PtMP use, and has been repeatidly delayed going on 2 years now. Originally UBNT staff said that the AF5XHD would receive a firmware update to allow PtMP use, but that plan has been shelved and they've said they're going to have to make another LTU radio specifically for PtMP. LTU claims to have 20 bp/Hz efficiency, but this is for PtP use and assume that you can achieve stable 4096QAM, which is very difficult if not impossible in most realistic deployments. While data on LTU PtMP performance isn't available yet, typically a PtMP scheduler results in a lower bp/Hz due to overhead. This is in contrast to PMP450m 5GHz, a mature product that has shipped thousands of units, which can give you 60+ bp/Hz efficiency, and over time there will be additional optimization to squeeze even more bp/Hz out of it.

are you claming that PMP 450m is far better then AF LTU?

To give you some quick examples of what you'd need to deploy with LTU and PMP450m to provide 100mbps plans in a 90deg coverage area:

- Hang 3 LTU PtMP AP's and use 30deg horns to give you 90deg coverage area. This config would use 120MHz or more of spectrum (due to possibly needing guard bands) and require most clients to be within 1km or less to achieve 4096QAM. 

- Hang 1 PMP450m 5GHz AP, which provides 90deg coverage area. This config would use 40MHz of spectrum and if clients are within the 3km 'sweet spot' you should be able to get most clients at or near the max modulation of 256QAM... which is far easier to attain in the real world then 4096QAM.

if i start with 450m Acess Point and 450b cpe in begning and after some time if i replace  in pmp 450m with epmp 3000, is it necessary to change the 450b cpe as well.

Regards

4
Thanks for your broad reply.
i have not use any cambium radios yet and i donot know how cambium categeories its radios.
like ubnt do as Airmax, Airmax and Airfiber and latest the awaiting AF LTU. and we understand that AF LTU would be best if we got them in our hand for PTMP.
but i dont even have idea which is better epmp or pmp of cambium. 
Your best bet is to start hanging PMP450m in 5GHz and hope that there are clean 40MHz channels available. You'll then need to try to keep installs within 2-3km and make sure that you have good signal and SnR. You'll want to use all newer 450b client radios. With this setup you should get around 1gbps of aggregate traffic at the AP, which should allow for around 10 clients (assuming they're all dispersed optimally in the coverage area to trigger MU-MIMO) to use their 100mbps at once without impacting each other.

is 450m only support 10 CPE radios, or just you have put it in this way that i wanna offer 100 Mbps plan, and if i wish to give 50 mbps then CPE could increase to 20, please answer.

When ePMP 3000 comes out here shortly, if you have clean 40 or 80MHz channels, and use the F300 clients you could start providing 100mbps plans. 

is ePMP 3000 is the most pwerful AP to provide 100 mbps plan with handsome no of CPE?

Last but not least... UBNT's LTU is currently not available for PtMP use, and has been repeatidly delayed going on 2 years now. Originally UBNT staff said that the AF5XHD would receive a firmware update to allow PtMP use, but that plan has been shelved and they've said they're going to have to make another LTU radio specifically for PtMP. LTU claims to have 20 bp/Hz efficiency, but this is for PtP use and assume that you can achieve stable 4096QAM, which is very difficult if not impossible in most realistic deployments. While data on LTU PtMP performance isn't available yet, typically a PtMP scheduler results in a lower bp/Hz due to overhead. This is in contrast to PMP450m 5GHz, a mature product that has shipped thousands of units, which can give you 60+ bp/Hz efficiency, and over time there will be additional optimization to squeeze even more bp/Hz out of it.

are you claming that PMP 450m is far better then AF LTU?

- Hang 1 PMP450m 5GHz AP, which provides 90deg coverage area. This config would use 40MHz of spectrum and if clients are within the 3km 'sweet spot' you should be able to get most clients at or near the max modulation of 256QAM... which is far easier to attain in the real world then 4096QAM.

if i start with 450m Acess Point and 450b cpe in begning and after some time if i replace  in pmp 450m with epmp 3000, is it necessary to change the 450b cpe as well.

Regards..

5

I think you have some mis-conceptions about the platform.

ePMP = Cheap option, ubiquiti like pricing

PMP450(b/m) = Expensive, but offers the best performance and reliability

You would never change out pmp450 for epmp. Yes you would have to change SM's along with the AP's.

PMP is better, but it's more expensive, however you sleep more soundly at night, it's a more robust platform.

450M supports much more than 10 clients, I want to say 160?

450m is the best platform on the market, hands down.

4 Likes
6

My responses are in bold blue.

 wrote:
Thanks for your broad reply.
i have not use any cambium radios yet and i donot know how cambium categeories its radios.
like ubnt do as Airmax, Airmax and Airfiber and latest the awaiting AF LTU. and we understand that AF LTU would be best if we got them in our hand for PTMP.
but i dont even have idea which is better epmp or pmp of cambium. 
Your best bet is to start hanging PMP450m in 5GHz and hope that there are clean 40MHz channels available. You'll then need to try to keep installs within 2-3km and make sure that you have good signal and SnR. You'll want to use all newer 450b client radios. With this setup you should get around 1gbps of aggregate traffic at the AP, which should allow for around 10 clients (assuming they're all dispersed optimally in the coverage area to trigger MU-MIMO) to use their 100mbps at once without impacting each other.

is 450m only support 10 CPE radios, or just you have put it in this way that i wanna offer 100 Mbps plan, and if i wish to give 50 mbps then CPE could increase to 20, please answer.

 

PMP450m supports up to 238 subscribers BUT if your goal is to "connect at least 80 cpe to one access point without compromising the quality and bandwidth." then you will only be able to connect around 10 subscribers at 100mbps each before you start compromising the quality and bandwidth (oversubscribing). If you wanted to offer all 50mbps subscriptions, you could double that to 20 subscribers. You should consider if you actually need to deliver dedicated data rates or if you can oversubscribe in order to put more clients on the AP. The vast majority of WISP's oversubscribe.

When ePMP 3000 comes out here shortly, if you have clean 40 or 80MHz channels, and use the F300 clients you could start providing 100mbps plans. 

is ePMP 3000 is the most pwerful AP to provide 100 mbps plan with handsome no of CPE?

The PMP450m 5GHz is more powerful then the ePMP 3000. The 450m is also a mature platform and available today, wheras the 3000 is just now coming out and still needs development time. That's why I recommended that you use the PMP450m first. It remains to be seen how many 100mbps subscribers the ePMP 3000 can support.

Last but not least... UBNT's LTU is currently not available for PtMP use, and has been repeatidly delayed going on 2 years now. Originally UBNT staff said that the AF5XHD would receive a firmware update to allow PtMP use, but that plan has been shelved and they've said they're going to have to make another LTU radio specifically for PtMP. LTU claims to have 20 bp/Hz efficiency, but this is for PtP use and assume that you can achieve stable 4096QAM, which is very difficult if not impossible in most realistic deployments. While data on LTU PtMP performance isn't available yet, typically a PtMP scheduler results in a lower bp/Hz due to overhead. This is in contrast to PMP450m 5GHz, a mature product that has shipped thousands of units, which can give you 60+ bp/Hz efficiency, and over time there will be additional optimization to squeeze even more bp/Hz out of it.

are you claming that PMP 450m is far better then AF LTU?

It remains to be seen how well the AF LTU will perform for PtMP, but yes... I believe that the 450m provides the highest aggregate throughput and subscriber counts of any radio available today.

- Hang 1 PMP450m 5GHz AP, which provides 90deg coverage area. This config would use 40MHz of spectrum and if clients are within the 3km 'sweet spot' you should be able to get most clients at or near the max modulation of 256QAM... which is far easier to attain in the real world then 4096QAM.

if i start with 450m Acess Point and 450b cpe in begning and after some time if i replace  in pmp 450m with epmp 3000, is it necessary to change the 450b cpe as well.

PMP450 and ePMP are not compatible with one another. PMP450 is Cambium's premium carrier grade tier of radios, whereas ePMP is more of a value tier.

5 Likes
7

If you have a lot of ubnt, try migrating couple of ap to epmp2000 and elevate licences(try a nice deal directly with distribuitor).
See the difference, and then decide. You would get a lot more performance than ubnt.

2 Likes
8

To further assist you in your decision making I wanted to address your sub 5ms latency requirement. Only the PMP450 platform is capable of consistently adhering to this low latency. The PMP450 operates on a proprietary protocol on FPGA boards resulting in consistent and deterministic behavior. There are contention slots for UL data requests and as long as this parameter is configured appropriately then the AP will always schedule UL data in the next frame. With 2.5ms and 5ms as the two options for frame sizes the resulting latency is 3-5ms or 6-10ms, respectively. 

ePMP has a higher starting latency that increases as you load it with more SM's. 

4 Likes
9

Can I ask what you typically charge for these bandwidth deployments? (20-50mbps)

We operate a WISP in a very low income rural area and most of our subs are inner city where we compete with dsl/fiber companies providing upwards of 300mbps - 600 Mbps like you said. We keep prices low to be competitive and offer one plan up to 50mbps best case for those in great signal/noise environments. The tower covers roughly 300 inner city homes.

We have 3 epmp 3000’s that have just been deployed in a nearby town as a starting point that has a tower vantage point of roughly 600 inner city homes. The town is saturated with the same competition… We haven’t made much traction here just yet.

10

We have quite a few legacy tiers and also new tiers… pricing and speeds are all over the map for those older tiers. We currently provide 20/5 @ $50mo, 50/10 @ $75mo, and 100/20 @ $100mo. All plans are unlimited, and we do a free overnight unlock, so the radios will transfer as fast as they can limited by AP capacity.