ePMP 1000 vs 2000 testing - need advice

There is the old saying "fix something until you break it."  I have a ePMP 1000 AP with 17 clients on it. It is perfoming pretty well with a mix of 25 and 50 Mbps connections (couple 75 Mbps).  However, it is on a noisy tower and in a fairly noisy environment. Perfect for what the new ePMP 2000 claims to be able to fix. So I thought I'd run some tests.

I opened up the 1000 AP to full speed on all SMs and raised the MCS rates all the way. I then measured signal strength, SNR, MCS and speed test (radio test, not Internet) at various times during the day to get an average at all 17 SMs.

The ePMP 2000 with beam steering antenna was configured exactly the same as the 1000 AP.  It was installed (the 1000 was removed) and I ran the same suite of tests again.

I found signal strength for the download remained about the same (small improvement), signal strength for the upload improved across the board and MCS rates stayed about the same.  However, speed tests were very dissapointing. Download speeds slowed down across the board. In some cases, fairly significantly (20 - 30 Mbps). Upload speeds however increased in almost all cases. Looks like beam forming works.

I have run eDetect tests on the AP and other than 2 SMs, no reported bad interference.

I then moved the ePMP 2000 to a slightly cleaner 5 Ghz channel. Signal strength went up (from an average of -60 to an average of -53) and SNR improved by 5 to 10 points. MCS rates also went up. But speeds on the radios dropped even further. Again, eDetect from the AP does not show anything alarming.

What am I missing? What else should I be testing?  I have a complete spreadsheet and am going to publish the full results but I need to get a better picture of what is going on before I start drawing conclusions...

Hi,

I've sent you letter, please provide me a bit more information about that issue.

Thank you.


@Au Wireless wrote:

There is the old saying "fix something until you break it."  I have a ePMP 1000 AP with 17 clients on it. It is perfoming pretty well with a mix of 25 and 50 Mbps connections (couple 75 Mbps).  However, it is on a noisy tower and in a fairly noisy environment. Perfect for what the new ePMP 2000 claims to be able to fix. So I thought I'd run some tests.

I opened up the 1000 AP to full speed on all SMs and raised the MCS rates all the way. I then measured signal strength, SNR, MCS and speed test (radio test, not Internet) at various times during the day to get an average at all 17 SMs.

what do you mean your rasied the rates?

The ePMP 2000 with beam steering antenna was configured exactly the same as the 1000 AP.  It was installed (the 1000 was removed) and I ran the same suite of tests again.

I found signal strength for the download remained about the same (small improvement), signal strength for the upload improved across the board and MCS rates stayed about the same.  However, speed tests were very dissapointing. Download speeds slowed down across the board. In some cases, fairly significantly (20 - 30 Mbps). Upload speeds however increased in almost all cases. Looks like beam forming works.

the 2000 isn't designed to improve download rates, its ment to resolve uplink problems when used as an AP.

if you have a problem with really bad uplink performance, your real world TCP performance will improve from a clean uplink. the radio linktest will not show an improvement on the downlink. itd a UDP test.    a test from speedtest.net would show improved downlink ONLY when the uplink has gotten so bad TCP ACKs are having a hardtime getting through. 

I have run eDetect tests on the AP and other than 2 SMs, no reported bad interference.

edetect will only show you WIFI or EPMP APs that are exact on channel issues,   try using spectrum analyser to check for other issues overlapping or co-channel issues. 

I then moved the ePMP 2000 to a slightly cleaner 5 Ghz channel. Signal strength went up (from an average of -60 to an average of -53) and SNR improved by 5 to 10 points. MCS rates also went up. But speeds on the radios dropped even further. Again, eDetect from the AP does not show anything alarming.

What am I missing? What else should I be testing?  I have a complete spreadsheet and am going to publish the full results but I need to get a better picture of what is going on before I start drawing conclusions...


the EPMP2000 is specificity driven to deal with noise, when an AP, just uplink issues.     in your shoes I'd suggest using the spectrum analyser,  pick a channel that looks clean overall. including your edges.     or return to your previous channel.       the over the air test from the radio shouldn't show much of a downlink improvement.   but you should get a noticeable uplink improvement.   (thats the goal of the e2k)        in the real world tests, if your uplink was getting butchered from noise, you'll get a noticeable improvement in downloads, or speedtest.net.   a UDP test wont expose that improvement as they don't wait for ACKs before sending the next packet, they just flood the link.    

if you've got a CPE having downlink issues, if you can get a spectrum pull from it.   if you see crazy co-band noise, you can use an e2k lite to improve it.    i've never seen that happen, but it is a possibility.   it would need to be crazy loud like -25 to bother the radio. across the band.   

I'd suggest asking your customers about the performance changes for them. if any of them used speedtest.net much they will have a history you can see.   TCP sessions is where you will see your results.   and of course, thats where it matters most. 

i'm hopefully going to complete my testing results by the end of the week on the e2k.   i've really picked on this thing and frankly, i'm impressed. 

 

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By "raised the rates" I mean I set the maximum rate to MCS 15 on the AP and SM.  Normally, my APs are programemd for a maximum MCS of 13 and the SMs have a maximum MCS of 11 set. That greatly improves my re-transmission rates.

I expected the 2000 to fix upload and it did - fairly significantly. I was impressed.  However, I did not expect to see the download get worse and it did with nearly every SM. I would expect as you say to see about the same download performance between 1000 and 2000.  That is not what I am seeing at all in my testing.

I have sent my complete testing spreadsheet to Cambium at their request. I am trying to gather as much input as possible so see what is going on. I'm by far the smartest person in the room but my test results are not making sense.

I don't have any totally clean channels on this tower. But, in an apples to apples comparison of 1000 vs 2000 on the same frequency, I should not expect to see degraded downloads with the 2000 - they should at least be the same.

I have gone back and done some TCP bandwidth tests on the SMs connected to the 2000. They actually match the radio UDP results (within 5 Mbps).  We also have a speedtest.net internal node in our tower shack so I can test RF only performance as well.

If you changed the max download code state to the radio, you’ve changed the condition of the text for downlink, which the 2k isn’t designed to improve, if you set the same condition back, you should see the same downlink rates as before. Or reevaluate your rates. Unfortunately the automatic rate adaption isn’t always the best, for a lot of circumstances it’s great, but sometimes to help with downlink, giving it a lower max rate can improve overall downlink through put. I put in a feature request a while ago to add extra backoff to the downlink set by the operators. Sometime like adding 3db to mcs requirements might lessen the code state but improve overall capacity. Since each circumstance is different it would be nice to be able to adjust individually. Or even just a more aggressive pattern to a less aggressive pattern.

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Well, the max download code was the same for both tests (on 1000 and 2000). None of the software settings were different. The only thing that changed from the 1000 tests to the 2000 tests was hardware.

OK, the testing is done between 1000 and 2000.  I think it is pretty complete but I'm sure something was missed.  As always, take this with a grain of salt since yoru RF environment is different from mine and your mileage will definately vary.

Full report is attached.