epmp3000 connectorized CPE

Unless Cambium has pulled another rabbit out the hat here, an N device connected to a AC wave 2 AP negates MU-MIMO during the time data is being sent (downloaded) to the N device. If that is the case with the 3000, the AP will revert to SU-MIMO for all frames the 3000 is sending data to N devices. 

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@CWB wrote:

Unless Cambium has pulled another rabbit out the hat here, an N device connected to a AC wave 2 AP negates MU-MIMO during the time data is being sent (downloaded) to the N device. If that is the case with the 3000, the AP will revert to SU-MIMO for all frames the 3000 is sending data to N devices. 


You're right about this... Cambium went over this recently in a WISPAPALOOZA video with the best/highest throughput being available for ePMP3000 to the F300 (and their other future AC wave2 client radios) with a geographically optimal grouping of clients in order to trigger MU-MIMO, second best overall throughput being 3000 with a mix of F300 and legacy N radios, which was said to reduce overall throughput by about 10% in this 'mixed mode' (although now I'm wonder exactly what they meant by this and if I'm not quoting this right), and the lowest performance being a 3000 with only N legacy clients. Theoretically, the 3000 won't perform any better then a 1000 or 2000 when only using legacy N clients.

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I did not see that video, but I knew this is how AC Wave 2 performed and unless Cambium threw in some really sweet secret sauce, the ePMP 3000 would behave the same. Thanks for confirming. 

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@CWB wrote:

I did not see that video, but I knew this is how AC Wave 2 performed and unless Cambium threw in some really sweet secret sauce, the ePMP 3000 would behave the same. Thanks for confirming. 


I was watching TheBrother's WISP video of the Cambium Networks Open House at this years WISPAPALOOZA. I've re-reviewed it and grabbed a few screen shots and it does look like there's a Force 300 connectorized radio in the works:

Hi,

Any more info on Force 300 CSM AP , AP wave 2 with no mumimo ?


@Makoto wrote:

Hi,

Any more info on Force 300 CSM AP , AP wave 2 with no mumimo ?


All of Cambium's 3rd generation ePMP radios are AC wave 2, however, this is a 2x2 radio, so you will only be able to use it as a MU-MIMO client when used with an ePMP 3000 AP. When used as an AP, it will not have MU-MIMO features, but it will have all the other AC benefits, like 256QAM, shorter guard interval (GI), etc.

There's been no further public mention of the Force 300 (CSM) and to my knowledge no one has recieved beta units for testing. I'd imagine this is something we'd see Q1 2019.

That's the answer I was looking for thanks! Glad to see it's somewhere on the roadmap for further distance clients

I see ZERO demand for the 13 and 20 db versions they are evaluating in that slide. With a 25db dish, 16db horizontal panel, and a connectorized version, why would they waste time and money adding 13 & 20db SM's as well? They should focus their efforts on things that matter and the 3 SM options they already have planned will be more than enough to keep everyone happy.

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Darin steffi,
I beg to differ. We’ve gone to hybrid fiber wireless and are dropping pops on utility polea frequently. Low gain 4x4 omni and low gain cpes are right up our use case. We still have macro site, but with a micro pop/fiber htbrid we can drop 500meg on a home without having to fight with as much interference thanks to the trees. Those products are perfect for a hybrid network.

Chris,

Why would you use the 13dbi SM over the 16?  If they made a 23dbi option, which ends up being about 1 foot square, we'd use it in our micro-pops for PTP between utility poles.  We currently use a connectorized radio with a 23dbi panel, but having an all integreated option would really clean things up. We'd also potentially use it in cases where the 16dbi doesn't quite cut it and the customer doesn't want a dish on the front of their house.  I guess I'm also failing to see much benifit to a 13 and 20dbi option, even in a micro-pop.

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Thread bump!

Hey Cambium! Any word on affordable connectorized epmp3000 CPE?
the epmp3000L could be a candidate if it came with the same/similar restrictions as the epmp1000-lite. We use these for long ptp links where a ptp600 or 800 series is not an option.

You can use the 3000 CSM for a PTP link, it just doesn't sync. 

I believe that defeats the purpose of my use case. Sync is a must and being able to attach to a 34db dish antenna is also a must.
Asking for connectorized for a good reason, but thanks anyway

CSM stands for connectorized, but yes, it does lack sync. A GPS "lite" version would be excellent.  The current 300L is too expensive for a lot of use cases (PTP, micro-pop under 10 subs, etc. )

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@Douglas Generous wrote:
Hey Cambium! Any word on affordable connectorized epmp3000 CPE?
Hi. The Force300csm is a (relatively) affordable connectorized ePMP CPE.  It's the same form factor as the 3000L, but in a CPE flavor, and connectorized for external antennas. 

>@Do@Douglas Generous wrote:
>I believe that defeats the purpose of my use case. Sync is a must and being able to attach to a 34db dish >antenna is also a must. Asking for connectorized for a good reason, but thanks anyway

Well, the Force300C is connectorized and is able to attach to a dish antenna. And techically, none of the CPE's (slaves in PTP lingo) are 'Synced' exactly - they follow the Sync whatever the 'master' is doing.  So, if you do need PTP link with Sync, then a 3000L AP as the 'Master' and a 300csm as the 'slave' side would give you GPS Sync and lowest cost (about $600 for both radios + antennas).

HOWEVER - using GPS Sync also requires you to choose a fixed ratios (75%/25% for example) and we are actually finding that the new ePTP mode, we're finding lower latency and higher performance in most PTP situations.  And since ePTP mode is essentially 'flexible frame' anyway - we're finding that two 300csm's with dishes are a pretty good lower cost/high performance PTP link - and at about $390 for two radios, it's about the same price (even slightly cheaper) than two 1000 Lite AP's would be.

Don't get me wrong - I REALLY LIKED using the 2000 LITE AP's as PTP links, with GPS available if I wanted, and with the Digital Filter (PLUS one Sku to stock for multiple purposes - the same hardware could be used for a PTP Master, PTP Slave, or a PMP AP) and that was ideal.  So I'm also dismayed that Cambium did an abrupt left turn with the 3000 and 3000L design decision making. However - to answer your question (affordable connectorized epmp3000 CPE) the Force 300csm is that connectorized device and it does the job pretty well.  :) 

First an apology: Jacob, I didnt mean to snap at you. Long day and the forum is really not a good place to be when tired.

Correct me if I am wrong but the force300csm is 2.4Ghz only?
2.4Ghz is not usable due to the competition (ubiquity gear) is using that spectrum. We are mostly 5GHz with some 900MHz still hanging on and a couple of 2.4GHz canopy links that are due to be replaced soon (not soon enough if you ask me but we have clients that complain about 2ms variance from their router to our gateways, hence they still hang on!)

We are a fully sync’d network. Too many issues with non sync’d links and colocation self interference. So all of our links are using a fixed frame anyway. This alone has made it possible to utilize (reuse) the limited spectrum available to us.

No worries Douglas.  All epmp3k stuff is 5Ghz. 

Unfortunately that is not true anymore.

Neat.  If that's going to change post info here, otherwise I'm confident in what I posted. 


@Douglas Generous wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but the force300csm is 2.4Ghz only?
We are a fully sync'd network. Too many issues with non sync'd links and colocation self interference. So all of our links are using a fixed frame anyway.

OK, cool.  All the ePMP3000 and 3000L AP's are 5Ghz, and all of the Force 300 gear is 5Ghz - I'm not talking 2.4Ghz gear at all.

So, you say you are wanting to use Fixed Frame ratios and GPS Sync on your PTP backhauls, then as I mentioned, the solution would be a 3000L as your Master (5Ghz, Connectorized, GPS Sync) and then a Force 300csm for the Slave (5ghz, Connectorized) - plus whatever dish antennas you fancy.  I just bought several links, and the radios cost $590 for both radios combined - and you'd have a GPS Sync'd PTP link. :)

The 300csm's cost about the same (a little less actually) than the old ePMP1000 5Ghz Lite AP - so we find them to be a great replacement as PTP Slaves.

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