We are preparing a few indoor spaces on a farm. The indoor space is not climate controlled, and will get down to 15 or even 10 degrees F in the winter. This is outside of the temperature range of the XV2-2.
It feels overkill to install an XV2-2T0 indoors. What is the actual limitation of the XV2-2 in cold temperatures? Without a lot of wind, will the XV2-2 heat itself enough to function appropriately?
Does Cambium offer “indoor” APs that have a wide temperature range?
Thank you, Chris
You will probably need to install outdoor models.
Cnpilot e500/501/502/505 can work up to -30C (10F is -13C) and up to -40C e510/700.
XV2-2 up to 0C so not enough (official materials)
Do you really need wifi6?
You listed all outdoor models. Is there an indoor ceiling mount unit that has a good temperature range?
No, I don’t really need WiFi6. In fact, I submit that the vast majority of people don’t need WiFi6. However, I don’t see a strong reason to purchase older equipment for new installations; and I figured asking the question about the latest equipment might result in the most relevant information for my other projects.
None of the indoor models cant work on that temperature according data sheets.
IMO outdoor model or some other vendor if supports that temperature for indoor models are options that you have.
I do already see what the data sheets say. That is the reason for my question here: what is the actual limitation?
I’m already stretching to use Cambium, so I can’t see budgets allowing for outdoor units for unheated indoor spaces, but I’ll update my spreadsheet. It is my intention to replace indoor UniFi hardware in this particular case that is already rated for a wider temperature range.
If the environment is “mild” in that there is no rain or chance for the device to get wet and the ambient temperature is normally above 0C (32F) the XV2-2 indoor device will likely do ok as we actually test it down to -5C (23F) and it has a good amount of self-heating so may work down a bit lower. We cannot guarantee it as we can only do that for what we say in the spec sheet (0-50C indoor environment). There is also some room on the top-end as we test it to 55C. As I note if used outside the specifications I don’t think the warranty would apply so there is some risk. For an outdoor unit you could consider the e505 which is very low-cost and has solid performance (802.11ac wave 2 dual-band) and it is very small so you can mount it on a wall or pole or weed structure. e500 will also work well. If it is a square or rectangular space that you need coverage you could consider an e501S or e502S and place in one corner as the directionality of the antenna will help cover the space. You can also consider an e410b or XV2-2 or e600 and put in a water-proof box which is plastic so that antenna pattern is minimally impacted but the unit is protected. The self-heating will keep the unit above 10F likely. Again no guarantees…
In the case I’m using as an example, I’m expecting these indoor temperatures to get down to -9 to -12 deg C. However, it sounds like you’re describing that these radios have simply not been tested at lower temperatures than -5C.
Is there any meaningful hardware difference between the XV2-2 and the XV2-2T which is rated (tested?) down to -40C?
If the XV2-2 and other indoor cnPilot APs simply haven’t been tested at lower temperatures, I would like to ask they they would be tested lower with specifications updated. Perhaps I have a limited use case, but I have multiple situations where I’ve used UniFi APs in the past for unheated spaces and would like to be able to use cnPilot equipment in the same circumstances.
I appreciate the suggestions. I am seeking a ceiling mounted AP, but perhaps I’m being closed-minded by looking to use only ceiling-mounted in these circumstances. I’ll consider it further.
These buildings are simply not heated on a farm and on a fairgrounds, for example. They have a roof and rough walls, so it is just a matter of when it is cold outside (i.e., when it is -20C outside, I figure it is around -10C inside)… although if the temperature range was wider, I may consider putting units in pavilions.
there are differences in components between indoor and outdoor access points so its not as simple as just testing it to lower temperatures. As I noted we test 5deg outside the range that we specify the indoor AP’s (so 0-50C spec we check -5 to 55C typically). We only guarantee per our spec which is 0-50C. I know for some platforms as we go below 0C there are points where some IC temps can go below their 0C rating and then its random if they will quit working. When you go too cold the frequency offset of the device can drift enough to impact the link error rate. It’s difficult to say all the failure modes. In outdoor AP’s we also have cold-start heater circuitry for situations where the AP is powered up in a very low ambient temperature. If you leave the AP’s always ON then this is not a worry. The self-heating of the AP’s does help the situation of extreme cold. My gut is that the XV2-2 will continue to operate below 0C and maybe even -10C but as I note we have not tested it below -5C and we cannot guarantee it. Many of the components are only rated down to 0C (especially memory). It is not designed for outdoors so there is a risk using it in an outdoor type environment. From your application it sounds like it will likely work in most scenarios but there is some risk. If you use one of our outdoor rated AP’s there is no issue and they will work fine over the temperature ranges and in the outdoor environment.
@jim thank you for the insights. I intended to put up an XV2-2 in a barn last winter but failed to do so. I will hopefully do it soon and see how things sort out this winter. Is there an internal temperature sensor (SNMP available?) that I can use to monitor actual temperature of the system?
That said, it probably isn’t intelligent to push the limits in a paid installation. So, the expense of an XV2-2 increases further by needing an enclosure for moisture and heat control - which probably makes cnPilot Wi-Fi 6 unavailable for this sort of installation.
no accessible temperature sensor on the AP to the User unfortunately. It is best to use outdoor-rated AP’s for outdoor deployment I agree. How about e510 or e500? Or do you need Wifi 6 capable? We have a new outdoor wifi 6 AP coming out soon
Ceiling mounted units are subtle; outdoor wall mounted units are less subtle, I think. If you want to centrally mount an E510, you need to hang a pole from the ceiling or have a stand-off from a centrally mounted support. It seems like it gets ugly fast.
Regarding using an E510 or E500, I’m not sure I would try to convince a customer to pay for Wave 2 AC gear, let alone Wave 1 AC gear, when AX is otherwise readily available from most vendors and 6E is available/on the horizon.
I see so you want an “outdoor rated” model that can mount on a ceiling and still look and cover as a “ceiling mount” type AP. We do have a wifi 6e connectorized outdoor AP product coming out in November this year which maybe is a good fit for your application. You would need to use external antennas of course. Does this sound like an option?
Jim,
I don’t think this sounds like a good option. I’m picturing a standard ceiling mount that is wide temperature rated and possibly high humidity rated. Something that would be installed in unheated outbuildings, pavilions, covered decks, porches, etc. The XV2-2 with a wider temperature range would likely meet the expectations, or a better sealed unit prepared for ceiling mount.
Thank you, Chris
ok good information we will use that for future product development considerations. Is the e505 too large for consideration? While it is not a “ceiling mount” type design it can be mounted on a ceiling and it is very small (227 mm x 130 mm x 70 mm or 8.94 in x 5.12 in x 2.76 in). It is designed to operate -30 to 60C and is IP67 rated.