Non los help

After setting up a 150 foot tower in our area i realize 5ghz and trees dont mix.

The tower is typically taller than everyone i want to cover but i need something other than 5ghz.

What can i use?

You should buy some Cambium client radios in 900, 2.4, and 3ghz and use their built in spectrum analyzers to see how clean those bands are.

900MHz can be difficult to work with because of the small size of the usable band and interference issues, but will work very well for nNLOS.

2.4GHz is easier to work with, but again, the usable band isn’t very big and you can run into interference issues, although it’s typically less then 900. We like ePMP 2.4ghz for this.

The 3GHz/CBRS band works very well for nNLOS due to the very high allowed EIRP’s and the band is quite large and typically very quiet… but it’s overall the most expensive option and will require you to be certified to use the band… so there’s a learning curve. It’s also very difficult to use on/near the coast line due to military user requirements.

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I also forgot to mention, Cambium does have an LTE line called cnRanger that ATM has a 2.5GHz licensed product… BUT unless you have a license that’s not really of any use to you. They will eventually have a 3GHz/CBRS LTE product… but it’s going to be awhile before that’s released.

2.4Ghz and 900 Mhz both have decent to good penetration for foliage. They are typically both noisy spectrum’s so be prepared to fight interference, especially in suburbia. Also be aware there is not a lot, if any enhancements expected in these bands do to the limited spectrum range each have available.

We use a lot of 2.4 and 900 but our business model is go where our competition isn’t and our primary competition is junk DSL and satellite, so the bar is low. It’s a marked improvement of what our customer base currently has so everyone wins.

The Cambium 2.4 ePMP line is cost effective but 2.4 is a very noisy spectrum and usually limits channel bandwidth to 10 or 20 Mhz. which limits capacity through the AP. Cambium’s PMP450 2.4 has better interference management but is quite a bit more expensive than the ePMP

900 Mhz has the best foliage penetration and Cambium’s gear ranks as the best in that arena, buts it’s also pricey. Like the 2.4 its AP capacity is limited due to a noisy environment and usually limits the channel width to 7 or 10 Mhz.

All support GPS sync and allow frequency reuse and multiple sectors on a tower to minimal self interference.

In my experience, the newer 3 Ghz spectrum’s foliage penetration isn’t really much better than 5 Ghz, which has trouble punching through a sheet of paper. Okay I exaggerate. (…but not by much)

You might also want to consider 5Ghz micro pops if your customer density is there. That solution has its unique risks/challenges but many have made it work.

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What kind of speeds are you getting with the epmp?

Im in a very rural area. Fighting the same thing as you. Trees and cows.

I also am in a area with dsl and sateliite so the bar is very low.

What kind of range typically do you see with those as well?

Is it the epmp connectorized radio?

If i micropop that area wouldnt trees be the issue still?

This housing development is 3000 feet from the tower is the fartherst customer.

If you can run a 20 Mhz channel in 2.4 and keep everyone one at good RSL/SNR you can expect around 40 meg of throughput through a single AP in the “real” world. We offer 7 and 10 meg packages.

Range depends on the radio antenna combinations. The ePMP integrated 12 db is not good for much more than 2 miles with fairly clear LOS. Reflectors can improve that (not recommended) but the better solution would be the 17 db Force 200 which is a cleaner install and can help with punching through the foliage or longer distances up to about 5 miles. I would recommend not using the integrated radio unless the customer is fairly close and the noise floor is not horrible. We do use some connectorized SM’s with the 20 db Ubiquiti dishes or the 22 db Mimotik for extra punch and both work well. We even used a 30 db Mimotik 3 foot dish on a 5 mile shot for a church that wanted to stream live video from the middle of nowhere.

In one of the little towns we cover range is not the issue, it’s penetration through the trees, which are numerous. Maximum distance we need to cover is less than 1/2 mile radius. If you are fighting the same thing, you will need to get creative and use what’s available. If you can reach one spot that in turn has decent clearance to several other potential customers, then some type of micro pop solution may work. You could sneak in some 5Ghz that way to minimize interference. For example, we are using a decommissioned telephone pole that can reach 5 other customers with pretty clear LOS from the pole but doomed from the tower. Its location and height allow us to get 5Ghz from the tower and then set up an AP that picked up 5 houses on 5Ghz integrated radios.

Height is what everyone shoots for and is preferred but we’ve had good luck going low under the foliage through gaps in the trees. Don’t be afraid to ask customer to do a little trimming. Most are happy to do so for improved internet. Go where the radio likes it, not where you want it. That may mean some aerial or buried cable from the radio to the home. Remember those trees? What works great in winter may disappear when the leaves come back, so keep that in mind. If your signal is “okay” in winter it will most likely disappear come spring/summer. Especially on 5Ghz

We ahve used trees or old TV antennas, including several old 30 foot break overs left over from broadcast TV days I would recommend that if you use Micro pops, they be placed somewhere you control or that you have some legal paperwork to cover you. Daisy chaining will also work, but if you lose a customer in that chain or a customer where you have a micro pop on their roof, you’re in trouble…

The POE out on the containerized radios will be your friend, allowing to you receive a signal and power another transmitter for a micro pop with a single cable. It was a nice feature of the ePMP 1000 line that unfortunately has not been carried on in the later hardware.

There is a LOT unsaid here, such as frequency management and interference, power levels, modulation levels, bandwidth management, etc, not to mention routers, switches, UPS, networking plans, yada, yada… You need someone with networking and radio experience or be willing to learn it rapidly, or prepare for your eyes will glaze over when you start hearing “Fresnel zones” and “multi path” and experience your first data storm.or lightening strike.

Not trying to discourage you, but if you don’t acquire a good working knowledge of these variables,and just throw up radios to get a connection, it will rapidly crash and burn. You can get away with that for a handful, but anything beyond that, it gets complicated. People who used to be your friends will show up with torches and pitch forks at your door.

Cambiums gear is a good solution and handles a lot of the hard work for you, (there’s science in there) but the management of it all will be on your shoulders and most often where start ups fail. As Sean Connery said, “What are you prepared to do?”

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Ive checked into som cbrs stuff but feel like it dollars and dimes you to death. I see cambium has the 450m for more.

How does the 450i compare to the m? And would the 450i get into trees?