Hi all, just looking for best solution to deploy cambium ptmp in 2.4… Is there anything with AC or is it all N? I know ubiquiti has the 2.4AC solution but I want to stick with Cambium. Thank you!
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so far its only N for epmp. There is the pmp450 in 2.4ghz too.
Unfortunately, no. Cambium hasn’t developed ePMP in 2.4ghz since the 1000 series.
Dang… guess its ubiquiti then. Thank you for your replies.
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We’ve tried UBNT AC2 and found that e1k 2.4 worked better overall. ALSO, there have been repeated rumors that UBNT will be discontinuing the AC2 line.
Oh really, thank you for the heads up!! ek1 2.4 still available? Is its end coming soon as well?
Yes! ePMP 1000 2.4 is still very much available and I’ve heard of no plans to discontinue it. We use it at about a dozen different sites with great success.
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When the 2000 series came out, cambium said that the reason there was no 2.4 version, was that there was no 2.4 chipset in N. They also figured the digital filter wouldn’t be as practical in 2.4 they said.
But, the AX standards do have 2.4 chipsets, and do have many of efficiency and optimization features which would seem to be ideally suited for outdoor 2.4 gear.
As Eric says, the cambium 2.4 ePMP 1000 do still perform pretty good, but it’s disappointing not to see any continued development with the new chipsets.
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We have also been looking at the proprietary Ubiquiti 2.4 AC solution, but have been hesitant, though they look good on paper. We are planning on trying it out for a PTP solution where we need more bandwidth than the Cambium can provide.
The 1000 2.4 works quite well in rural locations, running out to 7 miles with light to medium tree coverage and 20 Mhz channels.
We would also very much like see a next generation of Cambium AX 2.4
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We are in mixed farm/forest trees. and also would very much like to see AX in 2.4ghz.
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Can you provide any additional information on the path and the performance?
In rural areas 20 Mhz channels work well. If your anywhere near an urbanized area, not so much. With ePMP 2.4 we target 75% down link in the top 3 MCS levels and a minimum signal level of a -65, -60 preferred. Avoid OMNI’s if at all possible… Horns for the AP’s would be great and I’m told RF elements made them at one time, but if true, they are long gone. KP made a a 65 degree sector, which has been discontinued, but there are still some out there, and they help mitigate some noise.
We use a combination of F200’s for closer customers and connectorized units with a 22 db mesh dish for further distances, or to through more foliage. It works well, at least for 2.4 world. The narrower beam of both customer antennas help with mitigating interference.
Ensuring your customers router does not self interfere with your radio is key. You only have control over your own customers of course.but it will kill your throughput, even in the middle of nowhere, if its set on top of your radio frequency.
In noisy/urban areas plan on 10 Mhz channels with lower MCS modulation and limited throughput at the AP. Figure 25 to 30 meg through the AP in the real world and quite possibly less. 5 Ghz mini pops are the best option in those environments if possible.
Rural areas with trees and customers who are geographically spaced is where the 2.4 strength lies. We run 20 Mhz channels in those locaitons (could probably run 30 Mhz, but that’s never going to happen with Cambium ePMP). 40 Mhz is only useful on the moon.
In those locations we can push 50 to 60 meg through an AP. Our most rural tower has customers ranging 1.5 to 6.5 miles,all but 1 are NLOS and the other is nLOS. We are using KP 90 sectors with the lowest customer signal level at a -65. SNR at the tower is consistently above 35 and the customers all have SNR of 30 or better. Weather and wind fade is minimal.
Of course you are not going to be able to offer 100 meg packages with this platform, and we are offering 10 and 15 to our customers who’s only other option was junk satellite. Our customers have been very happy with the service. The ePMP line has been reliable and stable, though it is long in the tooth, but its the best out there in the 2.4 world.
Having said that, we’ve never deployed the PMP 450 2.4 . We are getting ready to turn up a new tower and plan on trying it there, as I have one setting in the back I’ve been tripping over, though we will have to use connectorized SMs, I suspect performance wise it won’t reach any better, and other than some latency/load/throughput improvements, I don’t suspect any huge difference. The 2.4 PMP did not benefit from the recent 450i upgraded on the other PMP platforms.
2.4 has not gotten much lover in the last few years. Ubiquiti’s Frankensteined 2.4 AC product looked sketchy to us and we avoided it, though there is some hope for the new AX standard, as it does include the 2.4 spectrum as part of the standard. I hope Cambium pursues that as I am sure Ubiquiti will.
We currently augment our NLOS customers with Cambium 900 450i for the really hard to reach locations. It’s a bit expensive and a little quirky but it can reach customers nothing else can.
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That’s a pretty good overview @Riverrat. Just a few notes…
- RF elements never made a 2.4GHz horn, but they do make a couple sector antennas still.
- KP still makes some sectors capable of 2.4GHz, but they seem to be designed more for use with 2.5GHz/EBS/BRS spectrum.
- PMP450 for 2.4GHz is stuck in time, just like ePMP 2.4GHz. There are no new radios being made (e.g. 450i or 450m or 450b). Even the SM’s are the old style that require reflector dishes or connectorized with external dish. We’ve used both and prefer ePMP on 2.4 of PMP450.
- I keep hearing rumors that UBNT is going to kill their AC2 series due to lack of popularity. Based on their track record killing other unpopular radios, this would not surprise me.
- People keep asking Cambium for AX on 2.4GHz… but there’s low likelihood that it will come to pass, and if does, it will be well after AX for 5 and 6GHz will be released. I for one have been asking for 2.4GHz on AX and I encourage others to do so.
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Thanks, will probably skip the 450 2.4 then and leave it on the shelf. The RF element sectors look promising. We’re getting ready to deploy a tower in a tough area, lots of trees and rolling hills where nobody else is willing to go. We plan on 900 and 2.4, 3 sectors of each and the RF elements with the side lobe and backshield look very good.
Appreciate it!
we have a kpp 2.4 sector alive and well, RFE is nice but for the cost at the time KPP provided a comparable sector for less and its still going strong after nearly 2yrs in the field.
If your planning 900mhz, the pmp450i-900 is a good bet, KPP makes antennas for these that impresses and despite the warnings about omni’s, If your cant justify having 4x APs then their omni is wonderful! Now if the SMs wernt so expensive compared to the epmp line!
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