Router Suggestions

We are upgrading to a 3 Meg circuit (2 x T1) and need to replace our Cisco 1720. The new circuit is bonded MLPPP. We are thinking Cisco 2620. Is this a good choice? Any other suggestions with reasons would be appreciated.

BTW, would a 2620 support 3 or 4 bonded T1’s OK?

adamb wrote:
We are upgrading to a 3 Meg circuit (2 x T1) and need to replace our Cisco 1720. The new circuit is bonded MLPPP. We are thinking Cisco 2620. Is this a good choice? Any other suggestions with reasons would be appreciated.

BTW, would a 2620 support 3 or 4 bonded T1's OK?


We have a 2620 with that exact setup at one location. It works very well. Sounds like a hair dryer when the fans kick on but it has performed flawlessly.

In other locations a DS3 capped at 3meg (or more depending on the location) was actually cheaper than bonded T1's. Bonded T1's use to be more cost effective than a Tiered DS3 until bonding 8 or more but in a lot of areas Tiered DS3's are actually cheaper than 3 or sometimes even 2 bonded t1's.

We are very rural, not sure if we could get a capped DS3. How is a DS3 provided? Is it over copper?

adamb wrote:
We are very rural, not sure if we could get a capped DS3. How is a DS3 provided? Is it over copper?


Copper or Fiber. DS1 / DS3 is the digital service , T1 / T3 is the copper. Technically if you get copper then your DS1 / DS3 is on T1 / T3 while if you get your DS1 / DS3 on fiber your DS is provided via OC.

T = Copper
OC = Fiber
DS is DS no matter which one you get it on.

DS1 = 1.5mb but you can get it fractional / capped. For example you can get a 512k fractional T1 for less than a full 1.5mb T1.

DS3 = 45mb and like the T1 you can get it fractional / capped at 3mb or above. It didn't use to be cost effective to get a fractional T3/DS3 until you were bonding 8 or more DS1/T1's but times have changed. At least in some areas. Depends on how many providers you have access to.

we have been using imagestream routers with great success on our network and they are much less expensive than cisco routers. they run a special build of linux.

tech support is awesome. we too are very rural and for now i had to get 8 t-1s bonded with MLPPP. Good ole Qwest had a problem with fragmentation when they delivered the circuit and imagestream tech support stayed on a 3 way call with me and Qwest for 1.5 hours till Qwest finally figured out that the imagestream tech was right and we needed to disable fragmentation on both ends.

they also have a nice menu system that makes configuration really easy even for those not familiar with linux, and i think they have a web based config that will be out soon. they’ve gotten good reviews as well.

hope that helps!


In other locations a DS3 capped at 3meg (or more depending on the location) was actually cheaper than bonded T1's. Bonded T1's use to be more cost effective than a Tiered DS3 until bonding 8 or more but in a lot of areas Tiered DS3's are actually cheaper than 3 or sometimes even 2 bonded t1's.


I was under the impression that you can't bond more than 4 T1's for some reason? I can't remember where I saw that but who knows.

At any rate - we currently use a Cisco 2620. While it does do the job pretty well - we're getting ready to set up two more Canopy systems and we're going to put Cisco 2811 routers in. Their performance is SIGNIFICANTLY better and while talking with CDW about pricing they gave us a pretty large price cut.

The Cisco 2610 is our standard “remote location fed by T1s” router.

We have thrown up to 3 T1s at it for upstream and worked like a charm (never tried all 4 T1s that the 2610 would support, but it should work).

When you guys are saying “bonded” are you ordering the multiple circuits joined together by the provider?

I’ve never looked into doing this myself, but it seems like it would cost more then just getting X number of individual T1s and loadbalancing them in the router. That’s the method we use when feeding a location with multible T1s. Cisco IOS does a wonderful job of using multiple identical interfaces for a route.

Chas wrote:

I was under the impression that you can't bond more than 4 T1's for some reason? I can't remember where I saw that but who knows.


I'm far from being an expert on Inverse Multiplexing but on a Cisco 7500 (assuming the correct cards) you can bond up to 40 T1's in a single MLPP bundle and then have 20 MLPP bundles in a single group.... no idea why anyone would do that.
ahull wrote:
The Cisco 2610 is our standard "remote location fed by T1s" router.

We have thrown up to 3 T1s at it for upstream and worked like a charm (never tried all 4 T1s that the 2610 would support, but it should work).

When you guys are saying "bonded" are you ordering the multiple circuits joined together by the provider?

I've never looked into doing this myself, but it seems like it would cost more then just getting X number of individual T1s and loadbalancing them in the router. That's the method we use when feeding a location with multible T1s. Cisco IOS does a *wonderful* job of using multiple identical interfaces for a route.


Normally the cost of adding bonded T1's is 25% to 50% less than adding completely separate T1's. Depends on were you are. Not all circuit providers offer it. Here a single T1 runs about $500.00 a month and getting two separate T1's would be about $1,000.00 a month or Two T1's at $500.00 a month each. However two bonded T1's are $800.00 a month and three bonded T1's would be right around $1,100.00 a month.

If you don’t have a budget limitation, go for the cisco 2800…great machine; will let you grow a lot.

2800 kicks ass… :slight_smile: we have it doing all sorts of crazy stuff…

When you guys are saying "bonded" are you ordering the multiple circuits joined together by the provider?


Yes. It's cheaper in my experience.


I'm far from being an expert on Inverse Multiplexing but on a Cisco 7500 (assuming the correct cards) you can bond up to 40 T1's in a single MLPP bundle and then have 20 MLPP bundles in a single group.... no idea why anyone would do that.


Hah! So you can do more it's just my router doesn't support more. I think the 2811 with HWIC cards or 2620 with VWIC cards only supports 4 is what I read then.

Thanks.

I would suggest something more robust, like the Cisco 3660 that has redundant power supplies and many expansion ports. It will eat up a few U’s in your rack, but it’s an enterprise class router.

Ok i put a SM on a hotel and the guy and his worker live there they want full access and full banwith to there computers and to limit it to the rooms this is all wireless so i need a router to do it by ip or mac address what is a good one that would do this?

You need a bandwidth manager.

We have used the Nomadix USG and HSG in the past. Not as stable as I would have liked. Seems that both units required rebooting from time to time.

fchristeson wrote:

Normally the cost of adding bonded T1's is 25% to 50% less than adding completely separate T1's. Depends on were you are. Not all circuit providers offer it. Here a single T1 runs about $500.00 a month and getting two separate T1's would be about $1,000.00 a month or Two T1's at $500.00 a month each. However two bonded T1's are $800.00 a month and three bonded T1's would be right around $1,100.00 a month.


Wow.

I didn't realize how spoiled we are. We have our fat pipe to the Backbone terminated at our "network hub." From there, we order point to point (no bandwidth to the internet or anything, just the circuit) T1s from our network hub to our satellite locations.

We get those "dry" T1s significantly cheeper then $500 bucks a pop.

Having the circuits bonded by the ILEC is an additional "up-sell" for us, so we just keep T1s to the same location seperate and load blance them.