Speed Problems.....

I am having some speed problems. When I first started hooking uo customers everything was fine. Now I have 30 customers spread across 3 access points and I am only running at 1/2 the speed I was before. Sometimes even worse. I do have a Bandwidth manger in place and I am blocking all p2p traffic. I have one T1 as my back haul. I am currently waiting for my second T1 to turned up. This will bond with the First T1 to give me 3 megs down and 3 megs up. I guess my questions is, does it appear to be a bandwidth problem? I am in the country so waiting for T1’s to be turned up is always a pain. Does the canopy spread the load out automaticly? I am running 900mhz with all the default settings as far as download and upload and burst speeds. Like I said this was not a problem at 10 customers, now I have 30 and I am having this speed issue. Any thoughts would be aprreciated…


30 customers fighting for one T1 line?
of course your going to to have speed issues.

You said you are using bandwidth management. What speeds are you allowing your customers? If you give them a 512d/256u connection, you could get around 60-70 customers on the T1. If you’re giving them a meg each, then you’re only going to get about 10 users sharing a T1.

ClineC005 wrote:
I am running 900mhz with all the default settings as far as download and upload and burst speeds. Like I said this was not a problem at 10 customers, now I have 30 and I am having this speed issue. Any thoughts would be aprreciated....

You really need to cap each SM in the QOS settings, or with your BW manager, instead of leaving it wide open.

Download PRTG Free version and monitor your router. Without graphing the router you are flying blind.

I am using the Emerging technologies Solution for Bandwidth Management. I am just blocking the p2p with it now. When I get the second T1 installled this should help with the speed problems then. I also have the device to autoshape the network when we hit 1400 kps. Anyways, I just really wanted to make sure that the problem was banwidth…That makes me feel some what better getting the second t1. Hurrican Ike did a number done here and I wanted to ake sure my equipment was working ok. Tower did real well in the winds by the way…


if you have to add a t1 line every time you add 30 customers, you are going to go broke very quick. your bandwidth cost could easily be 1/3rd of your revenue! we keep it around 1/30th or less…1/30th is really a worst case scenario for us. we’d rather spend our money expanding the wireless network.

you should try and limit the sustained rate for each customer to something like 768kbps on download (and less on upload if you are using 900 sectors.) this will also help your general performance as you add more customers to each sector. each sector has hard limits on bandwidth. on 900 sectors i would recommend 384kbps sustained for 1X users and maybe 512kbps sustained for solid 2X users. this is assuming that you will limit each sector to around 40-50 users. with more users, you will want to cap sustained even lower. set burst around 10000-20000 kbit

whether you limit bandwidth in Canopy, or in your bandwidth management suite makes a difference, too. your users can totally HOSE your upstream airtime if you don’t limit the upsteam speeds at the Canopy level. they can use up all the upstream airtime just with an errant virus, or random broadcast or multicast or udp traffic blasting your AP and ruining the experience for everyone else on that sector. (in other words, etinc can’t help because the traffic can congest the sector before it even reaches etinc.)

also if you can find a building or fiber pop or whatever with cheap, $50/Mbps or $30/Mbps bandwidth then co-locate there and back haul to your towers instead of adding t1 lines!!! it’s worth your effort to really look for the good deals. if you can back haul to a cogent POP, you can buy 100Mbps for $10/Mbps or 1000Mbps for $6/Mbps.

a good place to look for b/w deals is to subscribe to the “isp-bandwidth” mailing list and start asking for bandwidth pricing in your city. ask for on-net pricing in your city or if you are in a small city then ask for on-net pricing in the nearest larger area that you can back-haul to. even if you have to back-haul 30 or 60 miles, it’s worth trying to engineer for $6/Mbps bandwidth. but at 30 customers this concern may be a way off for you. (many canopy networks just aren’t 60 miles from a major city)

isp-bandwidth is just a place for sales whores to congregate, it won’t do your local footwork for you. but, posting on there will get you in touch with sales people from some of the larger regional and national companies that can hook you up. you might get luck and get pointed to a major fiber POP or other high bandwidth product near your tower that you didn’t know about. but, more than likely you will just get in touch with a lot of sales people that you can get things like fiber maps, on-net building and POP lists, and the like. you spend time putting it together and you get a real picture of the networks around you that you can utilize.

a lot of areas have regional fiber networks that are generally willing to cut great deals if you talk to the sales people for a while. regional/rural fiber networks by definition have tons upon tons of excess capacity, unless they are using really old equipment.

where there’s a will, there’s a way. bandwidth is so cheap that it’s almost free. the value is in the delivery. at the regional, national and international level, network providers exchange bandwidth AT NO COST (peering). how many people they exchange with depends on how big they are themselves. the bigger players only peer at no cost with other big players. the cost for any peering provider is all in equipment and long haul fiber, they only pay for bandwidth to networks significantly larger then themselves.

only the very largest of providers actually own their long-haul fiber. everyone else with long-haul just leases dark fiber between overbuilt POPs, or even just lightwaves multiplexed off of shared fiber from whoever was dumb enough to build it in excess over the past 20 years. it was really all paid for by creditors who got defaulted on years ago. pretty much every large fiber network follows this pattern.

ClineC005 wrote:
I am using the Emerging technologies Solution for Bandwidth Management. I am just blocking the p2p with it now. When I get


This is what the etinc architect answer:

dennis writes:

I'm sorry that you refuse to understand how to manage a network. I try and try to explain, but you guys still continue to have no clue at all. I can't make you smart people. If you want to buy products that don't do what needs to be done, that's up to you.

Why can't you understand that you can't manage your network by controlling p2p, or by implementing quotas? At least try to be smart. At least experiment with other ideas.

Its very frustrating being a smart guy in a world of fools. It really, really is.

And this is what he said from his website:

So what is the best way to thwart p2P?

The best way to manage your network, not JUST to thrwart p2p, is to give each customer a bandwidth profile based on their IP or address range. This solves virtually every problem that can cause congestion on your network. No one user can dominate your bandwidth. Users can use whatever protocols they want, as long as they don't exceed their bandwidth allowance. If a customer wants to download a song, he can do it, without having general p2p controls stopping him. If a customer runs abusive applications, he only used his own bandwidth, and only affects his own ability to use http or other well-behaved applications. If he complains, you tell him to turn off his p2p apps. He won't be affecting anyone else's internet experience.

But the best thing that per-IP controls do is that it frees you from having to spend your entire life worrying about what people are doing. There is no way for a customer to get around the control. Encryption, tunneling, port disguising: none of them can bypass the per-IP setting. You just set it and forget it. Its the only way to run a network.

yea…gotta love Dennis…I am currently looking into this. The good news I have an IP assigned to every customer now. I use it for Stats only but I can eaisly throttle them there, but then that is after it has aready gone through the canopy. The p2p rule I have set is a global rule. I would like to try and throttle the user from the Qos on the SM and see how that works. However when experimenting with this I saw how it was killing my test module as far as speed goes…What you adjust to is not always what you get…anyaways thanks for the response on this…