What do you tell people concerned about RF being dangerous

So about a year ago we hired a guy to climb a water tower and replace an ePMP PTP radio.  The guy had worked climbing cell phone towers previously but had not climbed in several years (was starting his own construction company). He had all his own gear and appeared to know what he was doing. He quickly completed the job and came back down.  I ask him if he would be interested in doing some more climbing for us and he said he would be. 

Me " The next job I'll need to do at first light on a Sunday morning because we will need to shut all the radios down and that's when the fewest customers will be using it".

Him, looking surprised "So when I was up there just now the radios were turned on ? "

Me  " Yeah"

Him "Oh. Well that explains why I got so dizzy while I was up there."

Me "Uh, yeah, these are very low power radios, I think you would have a better chance getting a sunburn from your Christmas tree than getting any kind of reaction from these radios"


We didn't use him anymore after that and I really never gave it a thought until the other day when we got a call from a woman who was very upset. She claimed to suffer from Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity (I honestly thought Better Call Saul made that up I had no idea people actually believed that) and was upset because he neighbor had an antenna pointed straight at her house and no one would help her identify the antenna.  She also had a neighbor behind her that was pointing some kind of round antenna at her house. Well the second one sounded like one of our Dishes and we had a customer on the street behind her so I told her I would come buy and look at the antennas for her.   

Sure enough the one antenna was a TV antenna and the one behind her house was a  5ghz Force200 pointing well over and the north of her house.  When she opened her door she had a cell phone in one hand and one of these in her other hand.  So this ended up being a longer conversation than I wanted and to long for this forum but in the end explained the TV antenna was doing nothing, the round antenna was not pointing at her house, none of the lights on her little green meter, if real at all ,  were  due to either of these antennas and were likely the 2.4Ghz wifi routers of her neighbors and the 1Ghz and 800Mhz was likely her cellphone or the near by cellphone tower that plainly visible standing there on her porch.

She hasn't caused us any problems but I do know she has called the city and the shrriff's department complaining about the antennas radiating her house. and it did get me wondering about the Christmas tree lights analogy I had made earlier.  How much energy do our radios radiate compared to say a Christmas tree light or other light source. It seems to me that the wattage is way below even a single LED Christmas tree light. 

Hi brubble1, 

Radiation from Cambium radios (or any microwave radio for that matter) do have an impact on human health. However, there are strict guideliness and rules that are already defined by various regulatory bodies that Cambium complies with. Simply put, we recommend that you maintain a certain distance from a live radio/antenna. This is clearly detailed in the User Guide of the corresponding Cambium products. Simply search for "HUMAN EXPOSURE TO RADIO FREQUENCY ENERGY" in the User Guide to read more about it. The recommended minimum safe distance is in the order of tens of centimeters and therefore the guidline applies more for the installer/tower climber than the end user on the ground and/or inside the home. 

Thanks,

Sriram

to ad to what Sri wrote, remind these people about microwave ovens... they cook with 1400 watts of power and they are not supposed to bleed, but they do. badly.  ask her if she uses that device that is hundreds of times more power and hundreds of times closer to her ;)    also they make person RF meters that go off when you are near strong or getting close to dangerous RF fields.... things like compact fluorescent light bulbs and TVs will set them off as well as some home routers, and electric motors.    your force200 from 6' away likely will not. 

there was a federal ruling back in the 70s that prevents local municipalities and city governments from saying that "RF" is dangerous past the FCC guidelines, so as long as you are within their exposure guidelines, you actually have the FCC watching your back on this one. 

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Whell, if I am not mistaken cell phones can transmit up to 2W of power nicely positioned 1 cm from yor brain :grinning: I like to give them someting to think about … comparing that to high directional antena on the roof working on like what 100mW

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I was installing a TV Satellite dish on a roof years ago and one of the employees didn't want that up there attracting all the Satellite radiation to her.  I explained that the Satellite was broadcasting it down to her, whether or not she had a Satellite dish on the roof.  I explained that it was hitting every square inch of Canada, whether or not she had a dish on her roof.  Of course that was a TV (receive only) type of Satellite, but the point is virtually all of the radiation is hitting her house regardless of what she or her neighbours subscribe to.

She was rather shocked by this revelation, but it does point out the fact that the total sum of all the RF from AM, FM, Sirus, Cordless phones, Digital TV, Satellite TV, CellPhone, Cosmic Rays, our SUN, leaky Microwave ovens, XBox controllers, etc, etc, etc - that the total of all that is:

A) insignificant and
B) add up to far far far more than your Internet tower a couple miles away would be.

Go online and order her a Tin Foil Hat and give it her to her. 

Tell her the hat will block any RF radiation to her brain.

She sounds like she is about as bright as a 7 1/2 watt light bulb at half voltage.  


@Cambium_Sri wrote:

Hi brubble1, 

Radiation from Cambium radios (or any microwave radio for that matter) do have an impact on human health. However, there are strict guideliness and rules that are already defined by various regulatory bodies that Cambium complies with. Simply put, we recommend that you maintain a certain distance from a live radio/antenna. This is clearly detailed in the User Guide of the corresponding Cambium products. Simply search for "HUMAN EXPOSURE TO RADIO FREQUENCY ENERGY" in the User Guide to read more about it. The recommended minimum safe distance is in the order of tens of centimeters and therefore the guidline applies more for the installer/tower climber than the end user on the ground and/or inside the home. 

Thanks,

Sriram


The distance "recomended" for the ePMP 5Ghz is almost 16 inches. 

No wonder I get dizzy every time I have to cup my hands over the LEDs and put my eyeball right up against the radio to see them...

/s


@brubble1 wrote:

The distance "recomended" for the ePMP 5Ghz is almost 16 inches. 

No wonder I get dizzy every time I have to cup my hands over the LEDs and put my eyeball right up against the radio to see them...

/s


If there is even an ounce of truth to this, please visit your doctor and get yourself checked out. No sarcasm. 

brubble1 wrote:


I have to cup my hands over the LEDs and put my eyeball right up against the radio to see them.... 


It would be awesome if the LED's actually Emitted Light.  ;)  They are impossible to see in the daytime.

If someone made a strip you stick over the LEDs that would use a sensor to light up a super bright day time friendly led, that’d be great. Or if the nwxt generation models would have a button you could press to get super bright leds for an hour…

I've seen a couple of threads that are similar to this and Cambium always responds (as they should) by saying that there are recommended safe distances in the User Guide that should be followed when working with Cambium equipment. I have also noticed that the User Guides typically say to power down equipment before working on it.

I understand that unlicensed 5 GHz equipment is low power and may not be much different than common consumer devices. However, I try to avoid becoming too casual when I work with wireless equipment.

Does Cambium consider this to be safe handling of wireless equipment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeKOmB1esIk

Am I missing something?

Don

If I ever get a hand, brain or eye tumor I'm just going to go ahead and assume it was from all the times I stuck my face in the dish and cupped my hands over the LEDs to see if the F200 was powering on.

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So many people are not exactly educated about magnetic radiation, what it is and how it can affect them. It does not matter the source of magenetic radiation (chemical, mechanical or electric), what matters is the frequency and the effective radiatied power.

I have run across a similar rf "meter" that I was able to prove was not really effective once I cupped my hands over the meters antenna (took a bit to find but I did), all that got through was the 800MHz and below. Put these things in a breadbox and they dont pickup anything! These RF sensitive people should be in agony all the time since our sun emmits trillions of times the energy that a smart phone (100mW ERP in Canada) emmits. Yet they do not complain about that! Some have defended that statement as its NATURAL, but when asked if they are in pain when a lightning storm swings by within 100 miles? Nope, no pain. But its the same energy!

Re: explaining low power rf to idiots? I use the sunburn from a birthday candle as an example, it is possible but you have to go to stupid lengths to acheive it and more often than not you are where you shouldnt be in the first place!

We do not install any antenna pointing to a bedroom. Though the possibility to cause harm is extremely low, we have this as a policy, we find another mounting point or we dont install.

If you have someone getting dizzy and nausous from being on a tower/roof top with radio equipment, get them to a doctor! There are many problems that rf can intensify.

We follow Safety code 6, its the Canadian RF Exposure Limits and Cambium's guide is very close.  

THOSE LEDs on the Force200/300 dishes are horrible! move them to the back of the dish! PLEASE! You can bearly see them at night let alone in the day!