Shameless plug for a LITE version and connectorized SM! +1 to Douglas on TDD PTP. Would love to get rid of some old Air Fiber 2X we use to feed some remote mini pops.
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lets make this a not so shameless plug for a connectorized version as well
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Me too – another shameless plug for a connectorized version, and/or for a 2.4Ghz ‘LongRange’ SM with as large an antenna as possible. We’re often dealing with obstructions, so 22+ db antennas are really helpful, even if they are huge. We did ton’s of BBQ grill 24dbi grids back in the day. 
And ‘hopefully’ a client priced version of a connectorized too. In the 1000/2000 series, the 1000 connectorized was $99 (less expensive than the integrated or the Force200, without an antenna) and then in the 3000 series, the 300csm was suddenly the most expensive of the SMs. Of course it does also have a waterproof gland and the 3000L formfactor, but still… pricey as a residential client once you add an antenna. Now in the 4000 series there is the 400c, but it’s really really pricey - and way way more than a 4525 sm is. The 300csm and 400c are great (and priced appropriately for a backhaul endpoint), but it feels like there isn’t really a residential consumer connectorized SM anymore.
Yes! A customer friendly connectorized version. Maybe some sort of key based limit like does not support APs in ptp modes until upgraded? Or limited max MCS to limit to under 300mbps aggregate?
There has to be a way to effectively make this cheap enough to be useful yet have a reasonable limitation.
Oh Gods… don’t seed the idea to Cambium of yet another even more convoluted hobble/feature licensing scheme. Haha.
Dont have to, they can come up with way worse options all on their own. At least this way we might have some input on which concessions we would be willing to make in exchange for more affordable options.
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Hello!
This thread is really long lasting. I have a question to all of you!
How clean is 2.4GHz spectrum in your vicinity this days?
Is it really free now because everybody moved to 5GHz?
Cheers!
In a situation where we need 2.4 AP/SM, that usually means the customer is usually remote, rural, and usually buried some the trees. That same remote and forested areas also helps mitigate interference from any neighbors. So, there certainly is interference - but often that interference is from the client’s own devices, and therefor is often something they & we can mitigate to a degree.
I’ll also say that with ePMP 1000 clients, we have many out there which we can’t install with 5Ghz (at least we couldn’t prior to AX 4500) and for us, ePMP in 2.4 Ghz is able to deliver 30-40-50 Mbit to folks who would otherwise be unserviceable. It’s been quite functional, and it’s WAY better than nothing. I’m super excited about 4200 in AX (as long as their isn’t any ‘fatal flaws’ that handicap it) I think it’s going to be a great tool for the right job.
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We have a bunch of legacy e1k 2.4GHz sites, over a hundred radios. There are a lot of tower sites where 5GHz is completely saturated and so we’re using 2.4GHz. Most operators have given up on 2.4GHz due to lack of quality equipment. Based on my experiences using e4k on 5GHz for nNLOS and noisy sites, I believe AX provides a perfect fit for a new 2.4GHz product line.
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I have very high hopes for this. A cost effective connectorized version would really make it viable for us for larger deployment. Where operate in VERY rural areas with heavy foliage and go where nobody else will. Really hoping it will have better penetration like the 5Ghz version and we can replace some of our existing 900 NLOS stuff. Exciting times and ready to get my hands on some of the gear.
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VERY much our situation too. VERY much hoping for a cost effective and VERY high gain solution for tree penetration, so a cost effective connectorized (residential friendly) would be great.
We have Connectorized 1000’s with 22dbi grids, 24dBi & 27dBi antennas. If we can replace the radios, and keep using those high gain antennas, that’ll be great.
I might be surprised, but I can’t see going down to 17dBi working all that well for these guys. It’d be great to have a similar to 1000 connectorized form factor product, connected to a 2’ dish and reach those hard to reach guys.
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Its definitely not “clean” but we are getting 15-20mb out of our 2.4 ePMP gear in 10mhz, which is enough for our rural clients in the trees to do what they need to do.
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in town, not very, but once your out of town, VERY CLEAN!
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Yes, we always run 20 MHz channels outside any urban areas with no problems, as long as you make sure the local router is not self interfering. We do 15 to 25 meg all day long on ePMP in those areas.
In small urban areas we’ve had better luck with the PMP450 as it seems to be a bit more interference tolerant and can do 15 and 30 MHz channels, as well has half step modulation to eek out a bit more, though still difficult to achieve 256 QAM they are capable of. We use unlimited SM’s that have been connectorized with 22 db gain mesh antennas that have a 11 degree narrow beam and F/B ration of 25 db. (We use that antenna on both platforms). It significantly outperforms the F200 which has 17 db gain, 17 degree beam width, and F/B of 20 db. The F200’s have been sitting on the shelf, but will get new life with the AX feedhorn.
Our average rural 2.4 customer is 4 miles and we have many in the 6 mile range. We use Cambium 900 for the really tough to reach customers.
The RF Elements array sector is also an improvement over the existing 2.4 sector antennas with a tighter beam, smaller side lobes and 17 db gain.
Using all of these in tandem has made the 2.4 band usable for us but with the never ending need for more bandwidth, the 2.4 AX can’t get here soon enough.
It would be great if the new 2.4 AX incorporated some of the features of the old PMP450 2.4, such as 15 and 30 MHz channels, half step modulation, i.e. 16, 32, 64, 128, 256 QAM, etc.,. This would provide some flexibility to maximize capacity in nosier environments. Since the new 2.4 AX will not be competing with a 2.4 PMP450 product, there would be no need to cripple it like was done on the old ePMP 1000. They can go for the gold. (Inserts another plug for a reasonably priced connectorized 2.4 AX SM)
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So first off I want to temper expectations… but I can confidently say the following:
- There will be only 20MHz and 40MHz channel width operation. Adding additional channel widths, like 5/10/30, etc are not natively supported by the chipset and it would be very difficult to add them along with getting those channel masks certified by the FCC.
- It will have the full 802.11ax modulation stack up to 1024QAM, so 22 modulation levels in total (DS + SS)
- There will be no 2x2 connectorized SM initially… maybe if it sells like hot cakes they’ll eventually make a 2x2 SM. You can use the 4x4 AP as a 4x4 or 2x2 SM however. I know, it’s expensive, I’m fighting for an inexpensive connectorized 2x2, but that’s what we’ve got so far. Anyone want to try this antenna?
- There will not be a WiFi7/BE version of this radio, as it does not add any additional features or optimizations for the 2.4GHz band over WiFi6/AX… and there will not be a 2.4GHz dual-band or tri-band radio made due to complexities and costs. Unless IEEE comes out with new features and optimizations for the 2.4GHz band, this will be the last 2.4GHz radio for the foreseeable future.
- It was extremely difficult to get these (2) 2.4GHz products approved in Cambium’s current state… I had to tell them we’d all buy a million radios combined in the next year
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Thanks for the updates Eric, That all still seems pretty encouraging. 
The low gain is maybe a ‘fatal flaw’ because most of us are almost always dealing with trees if we’re going 2.4 Ghz… but we will see.
Certainly higher modulations, OFDMA, 4x4 Up/Down… that’s all very very encouraging.
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There’s a lot of testing that still needs to be done as no one has released a high performance, long range outdoor 802.11ax-based 2.4GHz radio to market. There’s some debate as to whether a slightly lower gain flat panel or a higher gain dish will perform better in nNLOS conditions. OFDMA deals with multipathing much better than any other previous Cambium product line. Operators are doing things with e4k 5GHz with nNLOS that no one thought possible… so that gives me great hope for e4k 2.4GHz.
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Thanks Eric, appreciate the info.
We can definitely live with limitations you’ve mentioned and I hope the OFDMA multipath works as well for the 2.4 as it does with the reset of the ePMP 4000 line.
We experimented with the flat panel versus yagi on the PMP 900 and found no significant difference but the panel did have somewhat better modulation in a high multipath, i.e. forest, environment and we have used them in rare scenarios.
We will work with the cards dealt and hoping for performance that WOWs everyone
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I don’t know much about antenna design, but if a 2x2 connectorized CPE is unlikely to happen, would a larger dish for the integrated horn be possible? It could potentially be a SKU available for other radios that use the same dish, like the 450b, which could increase the usefulness for those 5/3GHz radios in longer PTP / NLOS situations as well.
The Force 425 has the extender “wings”, but the horn was probably designed for that from the beginning.
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